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Suggestion: Lower the price of AP Resets (Updated)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Iced, Apr 24, 2017.

  1. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    Oh! So you are expecting a direct response from the GMs!


    [​IMG]


    And indeed, you are. ;)
     
  2. OP
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    Iced Horny Mushroom

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    Wow... just wow. Talk about a lack of respect for people. I am actually not expecting a direct answer. I'm just seeing if maybe it happens. On the suggestion forum's there is an accepted and rejected headline. I was seeing if I was going to be put into one of those. I'm not expecting any GM to just come here and post something. I was just going to see if this post was going to get lost in the thread pages, or moved.
     
  3. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    Hey, no lack of respect. It was a joke that should actually poke more fun at the staff than you, tbh.

    But yeah, just looking at those other suggestions you referred to, count them. 19 pages of uncategorized suggestions... that is actually a lot.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Poppy
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    Poppy Orange Mushroom

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    IMO I like the current price of AP resets. It gives you something to work towards rather than doing it in a few days or a week.

    If anything, having a daily quest that takes a while to get an extra AP reset would be cool, but then again that's not really GMS like MapleF17

    You can also farm cake mobs and get AP resets while the event lasts.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. OP
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    Iced Horny Mushroom

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    Oh, ok. Alright then I'm sorry. You came in here kind of defending me a little so when you posted that, and sadly I cant hear the tone you say it in, it was taken as more of jab toward me. Like it felt like you saying "wow this guy knows nothing!" But yeah that is all I am waiting for, just to see if this post becomes another victim of those pages or gets moved. But all my experience with the GM's in the past few days, they have been fast when it comes to messaging them. But of course this is a thread that requires thinking and not a direct response.
     
  6. OP
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    Iced Horny Mushroom

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    Yeah I've done that a few times to take AP off STR and put it in luk, then for a few Gacha. Only thing I don't like is being a 56 assassin, no mob skill and it takes even longer. But at the same time I'm thinking I'm going to level at least once every day until I get to a high enough level to where that is hard. So I still have time so save up, I guess I mostly freaked out because it was something I just learned about and never heard about before. Plus I need this, that and another thing and I see no free'd up Nx for a while... I kinda started playing this game focusing on my looks (character looks like my avatar) because I was clueless to HP Washing.

    Side note:
    Now I'm probably going to get a comment like "Oh so you messed up and you want them to baby you?!" No... because I've talked to a few other players when doing OPQ about HP washing and they say it sucks and how they'd rather buy something else than this but they have to wait until HP washing is done.
     
  7. mettzi
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    mettzi Pac Pinky

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    I support any suggestion to make HP washing easier. It sucks joining a server and feeling obligated to prep for months just to play the character you want to play.

    "But that's not fair! I voted for months so everybody else should too!" I can understand that frustration but I don't see how that's a good argument against change.

    If an update like this went through, some vets would get shafted but it's for the better of the server in the long term.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  8. Krauser94
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    Krauser94 Designer Staff Member Graphics Designer

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    i have to say that i kinda see the point on wanting a price reduction, but...i mean, this is like a "hardcore" server in terms of rates and all that. That's why i also think, that something that you are forced to do, but will help you to be OP, shouldn't be that easy.

    A lot of ppl goes in the way of wanting to do things fast to get rid of them and boom so, so many suggestions go into the "let's make this easy", and the people tends to forget about enjoying the first lvls and the struggle of those, and they want to do late game bosses in less than 2 weeks. There is fun in that suffering too, i think that that's why we are here on this server, because we don't like the easy way of the current Maple.

    Don't take this message as a direct offense, i'm also evaluating your suggestion. Is good to suggest things, but i also understand why some ppl told you to stay first a little (couple of months maybe) to see if you really enjoy the way some things are, and then watching if they are a really huge deal.

    If as you said, you are enjoying your stay here and want to keep your char, do it. Having fun is the main goal of playing i mean, no?

    (also, as you said is hard to put a tone on words here, so you don't know how ppl is answering you in the beginning. dw about mines, i'm not saying it attacking you, for real XD)
     
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  9. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    Hp washing was never intended.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was discovered by players such as Tiger when they realized you gain extra mp when you have high int, and that can be transfered over to hp.

    Let's be honest, if no one washed bosses such as ht would never be possible.

    As a gm of a few servers I've seen the frustration of players to commit to hp wash. No one wants to spend months and months of not being able to play normally to wash a playable attacker.

    With untradeable resets this is a lot harder, and with only 5k nx a day, its even harder.

    Old players will always say "i went through it, you have to too". That's such a bad way to encourage new players to play a server, and such a stupid way to put things. If none of you realized that hp washing was a thing, and were 15x until you realized you'd be on the boat where you'd have to remake a character to be relevant in the game.

    I dont see why people would complain about having slightly more gachapon items in the server, the gachapon now is really bad at its current state imo. Having players forced to not use their nx in any other way than hp washing for countless months is extremely demotivating, especially when nothing is perm. You're giving up on cosmetics, gach, storage expansion etc.
     
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    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. fryber
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    fryber Windraider

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    Piggybacking off of what Krauser94Krauser94 said. If you love your character, then you will make it work out in the end. For an Archer (and to my knowledge sins have the same gain/loss when it comes to assigning HP/MP), one requires ~100 washes (my maths tells me 98 on average) to get to the optimal 5.6k HP for Horntail. For the sake of round numbers, the resets for reseting MP to stat would cost 310,000, 62 days of voting. Your suggestion reduces the nx required for washing to 100,000, 20 days of voting. Often washing is completed in the late levels of 140s or early levels of 150s and usually never earlier than level 120. With this in mind, I have to offer my rejection of your proposal.
     
  11. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    I would just make ap resets tradeable, have a market for them where players can essentially obtain it through hard work. As it now stands the only way is to wait, or hope you get lucky through gm events.

    It'll set up a generalized market for new players who want fast money without the risk of garbage thru gach. While allowing players to not be bound by the wait of about 2 months or more depending on your hp goals.
     
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    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. Prophet
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    Prophet Master Chronos

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    If they're tradeable, I bet you some people will use 10+ accounts to vote everyday and exploit that. It's exactly the reason why we have a lvl requirement on gach tickets.
     
  13. Library
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    Library Slimy

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    People will get banned for that. Esp since they record everything on this server - if the buyer knew about a certain person exploiting, they probs as shafted as the exploiter selling.
     
  14. Witty
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    Witty Brown Teddy

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    i support the main idea and think that the ap resets should cost no more then 3k nx ea. there is no normal human being who gonna pay 3.7k ea.
    only idiots like us saving 10545646487946546532121 for fucking ap resets and saying :"oh you know ,its ok just half year of saving nx!!" WTF?>!@#!@#?!@#@#!@#>!@##@
     
  15. Witty
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    Witty Brown Teddy

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    but i dont think kim would support this idea.
    her goal make the server harder and harder and more harder.
     
  16. Library
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    Library Slimy

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    Also, I just think people are so soft and expecting things to be handed to them. Yeah, of course it's frustrating - some people mention that they hate having to do it on every new char or every new server they play. No one asked them to move chars or servers; you doing of your own volition should not mean that anything should be accommodated for you, just because it's a bit of a chore.

    Someone in this Forum, forget if it was fryberfryber or TaeheTaehe or someone else also mentioned class balance; that's real delicate. I'm pretty sure it was Taehe who said that, essentially, thieves would no longer be glass-cannons; if you want to make it "easier" to acquire AP resets, I would propose a higher INT/MP requirement to wash for every class, just to keep it more balanced.

    Do you think it's fair that thieves and archers only need a mere 120 INT total for 1 wash? I don't. I still think that's too lax and too easy; honestly speaking, while it is "optimal" for you to make a mule and gather INT items earlier, it's not necessary to ensure a fully washed character. As Steve (fryber) said, he did the math and expected about 98 washes or ~100 for an average archer (which also means thief bc of similar, nearly identical HP amounts) to reach an acceptable goal for HT. Assuming you even had about 60 base and never even made it to 120 total... let's say... 60 base + 30 INT from equips (which isn't so difficult, at least, I don't think) is +9 excess MP per level. If you think about it this way, 100 levels would be ~75 wash and that's not that much of a sacrifice (considering most people would stick to STRless/DEXless or low 2nd stat til later). To bump up to 120, you could honestly spend an extra 6 levels and drop another 30 AP into INT in my hypothetical and reach 120 that way.

    Even more so, right now there are an abundant amount of Maple danas (easy INT hats to scroll) and Maple Weapons (no secondary stats) being passed around so if you wanted to dump points into INT, now would be an easy time to secure items to help you.

    The reason I personally don't think 120 is a lot of INT to reach is because Pirates have it way worse; and yes, as a class, they are 100% worse, by far, in terms of damage compared to archers and thieves. Why do thieves and bowmen have it so much better in comparison? If you really wanted to make it "better" you could pull off a complete overhaul of the system and honestly look for more balance in other areas; just mentioning easier access is not really a great way to talk about an improvement, as far as I'm concerned.

    Of course, it's also a bit unfair that classes like warriors require very little (40 int total) to wash, but their trade-off is very apparent. Terrible mobility, low damage skills (Let's not kid ourselves - using slash blast/power strike to 120+ is horrible), no stance or pinning techniques until 4th? And even after 4th, damage spikes are nowhere near as high as thieves/archers. I wouldn't be opposed to increasing the MP requirement for washing warriors, but I feel that telling people to just play warriors is not always the right answers because frankly speaking, they're not for everyone. But at the same time, I see this as a decent (not necessarily balanced) trade; warriors are not spectacular by any means, but they do not need wash (even DrK--people wash to do damage, not because they need it) and they a stable source of fair damage. In comparison, making washing so much easier for high-DPS classes "skews the charts" so to speak, giving people much more incentive to aim for damage-heavy classes.

    After all, why bother with "worse" classes if making the "good" ones takes little effort or challenge? I'm not saying that this will be a 100% guarantee, but it becomes evident that there are "better" ways to play, and that, personally, feels like defeating the purpose of an MMO. We already have Bishops and Mages being broken pre-BB; what else do we want to be so much easier? Also, let's not forget that a lot of changes and reworks in the way, as well as just proposals being considered.

    In the end, making it easier to wash does remove a level of artificial difficulty, I admit, but the arguments proposed by people here seem to be made mostly by the impatient and those unwilling to just suck it up and put a little more in. As far as I'm concerned, this falls under the "tedious" category in Kim's post about the future of Legends, rather than "difficult."
     
  17. Prophet
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    Prophet Master Chronos

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    Since when has the threat of a ban stopped cheaters from going through with it? Also, it's hard to prove if a buyer knew the seller was exploiting.

    It only takes one cheater to ruin it for the rest of us.
     
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  18. mettzi
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    mettzi Pac Pinky

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    LibraryLibrary I get that making the server easier goes against what Legends is, but how would lowering the price of AP resets affect the difficulty? There is no skill, hard-work, or difficulty that goes into voting for AP resets. It's just tedious. It's only a waiting game. A stupid one lol.

    KimiKimi I agree with the other people saying it could encourage vote abuse. Not only that, but that would make the game easier. All a new player has to do is buy an AP reset, sell it, and not have to worry about potion money for a long time. You could argue that gachapon is the same way, but that has a level requirement, and the odds of getting an item worth a lot of meso is very low (compared to hunting gach) whereas AP resets would be a guaranteed source of income.
     
  19. dumbledore
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    dumbledore Capt. Latanica

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    I think the cost of it right now is okey. Maybe a bundle of say, 5 ap resets for 15k would be nice but it is not neccesary. You can also team up with a dk oruse an hb mule when not having patience for washing.
     
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  20. Library
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    Library Slimy

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    I mean, eventually, Kim would find out. She records everything that goes on; it might take a while for it to get caught, but it will. If they did discussions outside of ML, yeah; but if they've ever talked about it in-game she would find out.

    I'm not saying threats of bans would stop cheaters; I'm just saying they'd eventually get exposed. Even if there's no proof of buyer knowing, btw, there could be a warning or something for maybe a perma if they get involved with someone suspicious again, giving them incentive to be more careful (which could be both pos/neg).
     

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