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Summer Event Balance Changes and Bug Fixes

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by Nise, Aug 30, 2020.

  1. HittingStuff
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    HittingStuff Slime

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    7:46 AM
    HittingStuff
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    I'd be interested to see these numbers and the comparison vs other primarily single target users(which it looks like paladin will be at end game now)

    From the numbers we crunched earlier(including more veteran hters than myself) HH can not be used in addition as spamming blast will out dpm it at a certain point of funding.

    Although I do agree with your second point about HH being scaled, this is one of the many *other* balances that could be implemented to make pally mains still strong enough, and HH mules weaker.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. joota
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    joota Mr. Anchor Retired Staff

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    removed that chart because the legend is wrong but you SS’ed T_T
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  3. thirdroom
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    thirdroom King Slime

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    9:46 AM
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    Tempus
    SeismicToss and trog were too powerful for their own good

    just make it so every time you HH you have to solve a CAPTCHA

    actual quick thoughts:
    • HT seduce changes seems like a huge shad buff which is cool because they're the sexiest class anyway
    • Holy Shield nerf is outright boring. Even if you call it a bug fix, the next step should simply be to bring it back as an official buff to the skill
    • Paladins will probably have to be carried in HT. They have ~1/3 the cleaving DPM of other warriors/shads, they will no longer damage heads with HH throughout the whole fight, and single-target blast damage being ~5% stronger than other warriors is hardly relevant when heads duck every 3 seconds and dodge half your attacks (have you guys ever tried to kill heads without ranged attackers jesus christ it's ugly)
    • Paladins are tough to balance because they're unchangeably strong in some select areas like NT but now weak in HT+CWKPQ which is the end-game collaborative bossing that everybody actually wants to do. Ideally you'd just make it so that you charge up HH by doing damage with blast/acb, or something like reducing the CD by 1 second every time you attack an enemy, but that's probably not possible to code in this client? If you could just scale HH based off STR up to like 1200 it'd also serve the same purpose of discouraging HH mules except for the biggest degenerates.
    • SI/TL mules in HT will still be a thing, they'll just spend a bit more on potions
     
    • Agree Agree x 13
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  4. paladin
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    paladin Slime

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    12:46 AM
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    its time to delete paladin. why make hh damage to 50k? then give us three targets like hero or dk. who wanna join ht with this fucking serious nerf?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  5. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    They're not completely killed off in HT yet; they still do sizable single target damage and aren't going to be a completely burden, but their worth basically went down to something similar to what they were like in CWK before this change - they can carry their own weight, but they are simply worse choice than alternatives with no recourse - they do about as much damage as archers and buccs without the utility the latter classes bring, and you'd end up bringing paladins by their merit as individuals, not by their merit from their class.
     
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  6. Liszt
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    Liszt Slime

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    7:46 AM
    franzLiszt
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    I just want to offer some perspective. A couple months ago, an unnerfed HH mule did about 6m dpm 45 in HT. Now with this change it'll be around 750k dpm. Pallies just lost 5m dpm effectively in HT with no real change to offset this loss. 50k damage on bosses would be okay if the timer is reverted to 10 sec cd. Doing the math roughly (assuming 6 parts of HT are up) its about 1.8m dpm if executed perfectly which isn't much, but should be reasonable.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    What are you talking about? HH Mules did about 3m dpm 45 in HT.
     
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  8. joota
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    joota Mr. Anchor Retired Staff

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    Please tell me more :)
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 3
  9. rambo
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    rambo Pink Teddy

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    21blvck
    Are you gon come back with your squad to clear the 1st PB run?
     
  10. Losj
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    Losj Capt. Latanica

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    No. I made a Paladin and we just saw what happened.
     
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  11. yogurtseller
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    yogurtseller Mixed Golem

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    wholesomeABG
    Shadower
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    8:46 AM
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    [​IMG]
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    yay hh mules are gone. pallies are now on suicide watch tho, please throw them a bone or two to prevent a great tragedy. ACB damage/range buff? threaten effectiveness/range buff? others have thrown up some good ideas so far [​IMG]
    cool, now change it back and call it a feature [​IMG]
     
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  13. rambo
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    rambo Pink Teddy

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    21blvck
    Petition for Sku to join the Balancing Team
     
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  14. Xaple
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    Xaple King Slime

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    Thanks for the break down! I forgot about the SE and had no idea the mastery changes didn't work at all.
     
  15. jackimaru
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    jackimaru Red Snail

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    11:46 PM
    Why does this matter if SI is no longer gonna affect mages....?
     
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  16. Shivering
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    Shivering Wolfspider

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    I appreciate the insight into what's driving these changes, but I'm not sure I agree with the logic here. It seems like bishops are being balanced around the fact that AM get elemental amplification? We have to pay 200% mana cost to receive a 40% bonus; are we just going to ignore that?

    Also, bishops have insane party utility; why is their damage supposed to be comparable to an AM? The whole point of making an AM is to do more damage; that means more single target damage and more AOE damage with ultimate since they provide ZERO party utility.

    Last point and a side note. Can we add clarity to these posts by adding a WAS and an IS section so people who are new and aren't familiar with the intricacies of each class can see what exactly is changing in one easy to read post?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. xadra
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    xadra Capt. Latanica

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    Disregarding the actual dpm output, lemme just that this change also completely changes and REMOVES the identity of Paladins in bossing.

    Previously the way a pala was different was having heavens hammer- it was a cool unique skill that required some strategy and positioning to land efficiently. Heroes drks BM NL all used one button to boss, but not us.

    Now what's left? Just go click blast lol. Even if the damage is "fine", if the goal is to play a FUN class, you definitely dont go paladin. Why would you? Damage-wise, utlity-wise, gameplay-wise, you're just a worse hero. It's like buffing MM strafe a bit more but removing Snipe.

    And dont give me that crap about "but youre good in scar and nt" you know for a fact that barely matters.

    Also chiming in to support not removing holy shield blocking sed. Like lmao one of the only skill-based plays required in the game and it gets removed. Tbh since the dawn of me playing ML in 2017 I've always tried to see from staff perspective, but really some of these changes make me feel like you saw some difficult issues (HH mules, HT being too easy) and took shortcuts that majorly shafts mains of certain jobs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
  18. tsugumo
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    tsugumo Mushmom

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    7:46 AM
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    All the active MMs you can count on one hand
     
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  19. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    12:46 PM
    Toon
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    can someone from the balance team explain the reason for the MM nerf?
     
  20. joota
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    joota Mr. Anchor Retired Staff

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    You’ll find that AR damage is still very much lower than Parayze and CL. So it isn’t a change that is game breaking.

    Guys much like last time, mr lawyer Nise will post an explanation of balance changes. I’m happy to answer questions in the meantime but he just woke up so give him some time to post lool
     
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