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The systematic discrimination against the Poison element in MapleLegends

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Oradious, Jun 14, 2021.

  1. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    So many I keep forgetting
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    Oh damn my bad.
     
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  2. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Imo, demons have needed a buff for ages. In terms of dpm, it's in the same magnitude as ultimates, hits less than half the mobs, and covers the standard area of many mage spells (not the entire map). In an age where the mp cost of ultimates has been practically circumvented, there is hardly a reason to use demon. The only times I've made use of it are on Jiaoceng mobs (because demon actually works on them), NTPQ, and removing lightning weaknesses on mobs so I could CL them neutrally. As it stands, boss fire and ice elemental weakness is actually a bigger benefit for the OPPOSITE mage due to fire/ice skills being quite garbage (tfw big bang is a viable cwk skill), but summons are free dpm of the opposite element. As has been pointed out, it would take an ice/fire weakness AND be strong to lightning/poison to make those elements worthwhile.

    The question is: would a fp poison buff be warranted? FP skills by default are a good chunk better. In grinding, this is supposed to be the tradeoff for ice skills freezing (yet ice demon DOESNT freeze but is still quite a ton weaker than fire demon). When has freeze been relevant outside of 3rd job (where fp gets massively superior mist) and seal exists if you REALLY want some mob to stop casting? Fp is undoubtedly better at grind than il.

    In terms of CL vs Para, I'd say that CL is the much better skill simply due to elemental weakness being practically a requirement to be respectable to other classes. Poison is a bad element, and lightning is an amazingly versatile element. On ele neutral though, FP still comes out on top; a tradeoff of a more restrictive boss list and better ultimate gameplay. Zak, HT, PB, and even CWKPQ are all better on fp (fp can pivot to margana if needed; i/l cannot), but basically useless elsewhere. BuT cL cLeAvEs?? With 50% damage reduction on each extra hit it's handy in clearing weak mobs fast and useful for clearing out Mano's snail summons but what relevant 2 cleave is there? CWK big bang has become the tool of choice (only highlighting how bad elemental demons are) and even scarga 2-cleave has a lightning resistant boss to make bb the better choice. Any other opportunity to see cl cleave in action is squandered because it wont bounce (HT, PB statue).

    Poison is a terrible element limiting FP boss application outside of element neutral (most of the meta bosses), but with its superior ultimate, is it justified? I/l has it much harder to meet ult thresholds. I'd rather see arch mage ultimates nerfed and demons significantly buffed to preserve a high mobility-good grind gameplay. When can we finally rid ourselves of ultimates holding back two classes from being productive members of society?
     
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  3. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Disparity
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    move everything from immune to resists
     
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  4. Fraiche
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    Fraiche Pac Pinky Retired Staff

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    I always liked the idea of different bossing roles for the two mages, i.e. I/Ls better at ele weak bosses and FPs better at neutral bosses. From that POV, I don't mind the immunities as long as it at least let me do well on the neutral bosses. A slight dmg buff would be nice though.

    Just a random idea but maybe tweak Paralyze's stun effect instead. Add in something that aids party dps instead of individual dps. Off the top of my head, let Para apply a debuff that reduce % def effect on bosses (still immune to stun ofc) or something like that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Eighty
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    Eighty Windraider

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    I'm so sorry but I'm gonna be an asshole and say this because I see this mistake way too often. It's systemic not systematic OnionSorry
     
    • Informative Informative x 5
  6. Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    I'm a fan of the idea of balancing elemental classes around content and not so much around skill buffs/nerfs/reworks, as drastic skill changes could have greater and not so obvious implications. As I see it mages are a unexplored class with very few strong exponents that haven't properly nor fully demonstrate what are the classes truly capable of and that sucks because we are willing to sacrifice our potential in order to buff skills that already have a niche. Then I fully support making content more 'elemental-ly' diverse in a fair and balanced way rather than nerfing/buffing skills blindly
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. kiln
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    kiln Pink Teddy

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    I've found Blizzard's freeze to be really useful if you aren't able to 1hit mobs. Of course it's irrelevant once you get to a point where you are 1hitting everything outside of Shaolin, but not everyone starts from 1300tma.
     
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  8. Kyshies
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    Kyshies Slimy

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    I do hope they remove poison immunity from all those Neo Tokyo bosses, since it'll open up more opportunities for gameplay for F/P mages aside from just farming mesos.

    I doubt it'll make F/P top-tier or even on par with the usual cast of attacker jobs, but it's nice to be able to actually attack the bosses in question for sure. I know Fire Demon is a thing but it sucks.
     
  9. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    I don't see any reason why bosses should even be resistant at all towards different elements. Seems like an antiquated system Neckson created, but didn't think through for future bosses. It only makes sense for mobs, to create diversity in training. Being barred from any boss just feels terrible. At least multi-stage bosses should be more like Verga, which switches his element weaknesses between bodies. At least there's some better gameplay there.

    We can kill two birds with one stone here, by nerfing ults by 5-10 levels (25-50tma), in exchange for better bossing (slight buff to CL/para or ice/fire demon or let SI affect these skills), and less immunity/resistance by bosses. This will make it harder to do multi-mage shenanigans without significantly more investment. People who main mages can still hit relevant TMA thresholds quite easily.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  10. Pixel
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    Pixel Mixed Golem

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    I agree with most of the points , ESPECIALLY ^

    I am just game to buffing bossing mage , but let's take mobbing mage away

    Come on you cant be the king of ez pz farming and also have bossing, i'm willing to give Mages the fun that it is bossing in exchange to be on the same level in terms of grinding
     
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  11. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    More relevant than ever before now :^)
     
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  12. Kyshies
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    Kyshies Slimy

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    This man is right please save me from my bad decisions.
     
  13. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    And I'm even an Ice Lightning mage which would have zero benefits of F/P getting this buff. So there's no bias
     
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  14. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    mages together strong
     
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  15. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    It's baffling to me that Archmages' strongest skill (in terms of just damage) is also their longest range/best AOE (ult) and Bishops have a faster ult than Archamages. As an I/L main I'd gladly take a huge nerf to ults in exchange for removal of elemental immunity on bosses and a big buff to other 4th job mage skills. It wouldn't really hurt mage grinding since almost all TMA threshholds are very easy to reach anyway and ults work well for farming low level mobs for scrolls too.
     
  16. OP
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    Oradious
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    Oradious Capt. Latanica

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  17. Kyshies
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    Kyshies Slimy

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    RIP I sold my earrings :(
     
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  18. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    Soon: The systemic discrimination against the I/L mage in MapleLegends
     
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  19. OP
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    Oradious
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    Oradious Capt. Latanica

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    Bump

    With the arrival of NT part 2, would like to remind that vanilla version of the NT part 2 bosses do contain some form of poison immunity.
     
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