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Theorycrafting Shivering's 3rd 100m challenge

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jafel, Jun 8, 2021.

  1. Jafel
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    Hello Maplers, sweatlords, sweaty minmaxers, and AinzAinz ,

    I would like to use this thread to theorycraft how to be the best/fastest at beating ShiveringShivering s challenge in the most fair and honor-code abiding way.

    I will update this main post based on your reactions. I will do some calculations, graphs etc over time. You can reply with your theories and/or calculations and graphs and we'll have a final result. I will update this main thread with your additions too if you would like. :)

    IMO the challenges are mainly in:
    • which job (some jobs are slow on maple island, esp without quests, but fast(er) on victoria (example: mages), while others would be fast on maple island and okay-ish outside (warriors, brawlerpirates)).
    • which mobs (no genin, no bubbling, no teddies, so which are good after that?)
    • which maps (mobs are 1 thing, but they need good spawn and nice map layout to be useful)
    • which pots (very important because you have 1m startermoney for pots only)

    Lets get to it!

    First things first: Maple Island
    So, which mobs have good HP vs Exp ratio? It seems that Snails are the absolute king with 0.375 exp for every HP. While all the later mobs (Red Snails, Stumps, Slime, Orange Mush, Pig) have only 0.2 exp for every HP.
    upload_2021-6-8_14-51-53.png

    Next up, let's look at how to achieve the optimal snail-killing stats. There are two main focuses, you either put everything in primary stat str (starting 12 str, 5 dex), or you put everything in secondary stat dex (starting 5 str, 12 dex). I included two other approaches after comparing the first two. mixlvl1 starts at 12str 5 dex and then only adds dex. mixlvl6 starts at 12str 5 dex and adds str until lvl 6 and lvl7-10 adds dex. The thought behind this is that you want to 1-hit a snail asap. there's a point of diminishing returns for str-focus builds.
    upload_2021-6-8_15-38-56.png

    Ofcourse there are more than just snails on maple island. Lets take a look at the other two low lvl mobs with > 0.2 exp/hp ratio. We can see that including those in our considerations strongly favors the mixlvl6 build that starts at 12str/5dex and keeps adding str until lvl6 and adds dex for 7-10. This build would be beneficial for Pirates (20 dex for first job adv), bowmen (25 dex for first job adv). And in lesser extent for Thieves(25 dex for first job adv, however don't need str and wont be able to deal high dmg with lucky 7 without LUK).
    upload_2021-6-8_15-36-53.png

    Expanding this to the higher lvl and higher exp mobs on maple island we get a 2-hit chart for stumps, slimes, and pigs
    upload_2021-6-8_15-37-14.png
    This too seems to point towards a strategy focusing on STR first. Depending on your character goal(s) and class you might want to focus on STR only (warrior) or do mixlvl6 (thieves, bowmen, mixlvl7 for pirates maybe).

    All above charts assume the use of the Club as starter wep, seeing as it starts with 2 more attack than the other weapons available to beginners at character selection. I did a comparison for sword too, seeing as it is faster(3), but I am not convinced that the attack speed will matter enough at these lower lvls.


    Next up: What is the Victoria Island viability per class? Are crippled early-str mages viable for the speedrun strat? What mobs are we bringing to extinction? Tune in next time!
     

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  2. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    So many I keep forgetting
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    Your huge brain is leaking to my competition, please delete.
     
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  4. fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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  5. OP
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    Jafel
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    It's either this or farming toxicfunny in every other thread.
     
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  6. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    mage is prolly the best class from lvl 8 to 30. but pirates are a very strong contender too, with somersault kick doing 190% dmg on 6 monster, and having no weapon restrictions
     
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  7. OP
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    I also heard that it counts as a stab(for some reason...) so using a spear would be great with SSK.
     
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  8. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I'm not sure if it counts as a stab, but slow spears tend to have the highest attack base for their levels.
     
  9. OP
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    SSK is affected by attack speed tho, so I'd much rather hope for a fish spear (normal 6). Or maybe a bamboo spear (fast 4) from gacha if that is a thing here. (it's untradeable as well, so that helps with the legitimacy of the claim).

    Anyways, we'll get to pirate calculations soon :)
     
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    The Mage attempt

    At first we will look at mages, as I think most people would agree with me that an unfunded mage with 1m pot money will most likely (need to verify) have the highest damage out of all first-job characters. This is single target damage, so we would have to compare this to other single target classes (lucky7 rogue with low luk? bowmen?) and see if we can compare to mobbing classes (warrior, knucklebrawler).

    Mages bring a new challenge. They don't use STR or DEX and thus would not necessarily fare well with the original maple island strats posted. I came up with 4 potential builds that seem somewhat logical for a challenge like this.
    • The INTmage, 12 int 5 luk, 4 dex 4 str. This char only puts points in INT.
    • The STRINTmage, 5 int, 4 luk, 4 dex, 12 str. This char starts with high str but then only puts points in INT.
    • The STRmage, 5 int, 4 luk, 4 dex, 12 str. This char starts with high str and adds str until lvl 5. Adds int at lvl6, 7, 8 to meet the requirements for job advancement.
    Lets take another stab at the snail strategy from earlier. We assume this mob has the best Exp/HP ratio, so we can focus on these for maple island. This should not necessarily be much slower than other strats as we get out at lvl8 anyways. I included the probability to 2-hit as we are dealing with a very different stat progression for mages.
    upload_2021-6-8_20-37-50.png

    So, now we will get to why I chose these three builds. There's a certain trade-off between leveling speed on maple island vs leveling speed outside of maple island. You can see how the builds would fare on maple island above, while just below you will see the minimum damage for a mage from lvl8 to lvl30. I assume you are using the free beginner wooden wand with 21 magic attack.
    upload_2021-6-8_20-40-44.png

    Based on this plot, we can see in later levels (after you max magic claw) that there is about a 2-3 level delay in damage for the builds. INTmage will hit damage 2-3 lvls earlier than STRINTmage and 5-6 lvls earlier than STRmage.

    I think general consensus will revolve around minimizing travel times. That means we need good maps close to any of the major cities in Victoria with mobs that are easily killable in 1 or 2 hits and allow to increase your kill-speed potential.
    upload_2021-6-8_21-38-47.png

    I did not find much difference for lvl8 versus lvl9 or lvl10. I would assume Slimes are great at these levels as you can 1-hit slimes 100% at lvl9 as an INTmage and at lvl10 as a STRINTmage. They are in very close proximity to any good Victoria Island towns (especially Ellinia) and have nice spawns. The Tree That Grew II seems particularly great for this.

    After these beginning levels, which should hopefully fly by fast. We would have to orient on our next steps. It seems like the major points here are: where to go at lvl11, and where to go at lvl15. Lvl11 is when your points in Magic Claw start making a difference, while lvl15 is when Magic Claw is maxed.
    upload_2021-6-8_22-5-24.png

    One thing is for sure, don't go to Dark Stumps! Here we see that it's either a high-chance for 1-hitting at Ribbon Pigs (and Coke Snails, but the spawn in those maps is atrocious). Or maybe 2-hitting Roosters. Lets see what our next plot tells us about the best course of action.
    upload_2021-6-8_22-44-8.png

    Here it becomes very clear that there's just too many options at this level. Preferably we want to train at mobs above the line. We can see Jr. Necki is a good mob for 1-hitting at a great Exp/HP ratio. It has its mostly own map in the Kerning City Swamp. It's not the best mob regarding spawns & fast and easily accessible maps though. Looking along the line we find Ghost Stump, Wooden Mask and Rocky Mask close to it and all are in a large map with great spawn. This might be a good map to grind at if there's a fast way to get there legitly (speed from beginner skill, speed potions). Else, Horny Mushrooms or Roosters and White Roosters would be the next best bet.
     

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  11. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    And now everyone is going to adapt the exact same approach :(
     
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  12. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    join the pirate gang, for the subjectively superior sommersault kick xDD

    also max dash for OP +30% movespeed
     
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    I will let the mage rest for a bit. I assume the single target strategies at later levels will be similar, so I want to explore another single target contender: The rogue using lucky 7.

    Rogues deviate a bit from other classes as they need 25 dex, but don't use str at all for their attack damage (except for punching with claw). So I looked at three builds for rogues. The DEX build (classic dexless actually), the mixlvl1 and the mixlvl6 (you recognize these from the first post).

    Let's see how well these builds are capable of oneshotting weak Maple Island mobs.
    upload_2021-6-9_14-48-41.png

    This points towards either mixlvl1 or mixlvl6. You can clearly see that those builds are the only builds capable of one-shotting anything at all at these lvls. Especially when DEX does not go higher than 25.

    Interestingly though, when we look at 2shotting weak mobs, we see a new trend emerging.
    upload_2021-6-9_14-50-55.png

    Suddenly, going DEX first till 25 dex isn't as bad when staying at snails. You will 2-hit them consistently starting lvl2. Or for the mixlvl1 build you will 2-hit them starting lvl3. And especially this mixlvl1 build seems very viable at Maple Island looking at these weaker mobs. You're capable of oneshotting snails, and very well capable at 2shotting other weaker mobs. Seeing as you plateau hard as soon as you hit 25 dex, you're best off at the weaker mobs with the best Exp/HP ratio.

    When you get off maple island, you need to make a decision on potions and stars etcetera. There's one type of star you can buy aside from subi, which is oranges/paper planes (so 2, but both have 20 att instead of 15). Lets see how the builds fare against each other for both items.
    upload_2021-6-9_14-56-12.png

    Here we can clearly see that the dex (or actually classic DEXless) build hits the hardest, as expected. With mixlvl1 (start 12str/5dex, then add dex until 25, to further add luk afterwards) being a close second, and only lagging 1-2 levels behind. We can also see that mixlvl6 will probably be least useful. You would have to start attacking with a melee wep such as sword or dagger until lvl12 to actually do any damage.

    We also see that having 5 more attack on your stars makes a clear difference, but at a cost of 100k per set, that's a hard sell for just 60 more minimum damage at lvl30.

    More interestingly, the beginner build for rogues seems a bit more forgiving than the mage build, as you build into dex after the first 12str instead of into int. However, when you get off maple island, your minimum damage is substantially lower than the minimum damage for mages. Mages scale harder starting lvl8 and stay ahead the rest of the course. I think this means we can focus on mage being the most beneficial single-target job for the challenge.

    Next up: Brawlerpirates, some more in depth analyses for later level mobs (because... what do you do after lvl20?), best travel route?, Potions?!

    Find out next time!
     
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  14. Chris
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    500 IQ move, feeding the competition incorrect data so they pick the shittier routes. OnionPerfect
     
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  15. Shivering
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    Shivering Wolfspider

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    You may want to consider coke pills. Imo if you're not using att pots you're griefing yourself.
     
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    braidgame Pac Pinky

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    I think pro islanders or deletelanders already know how to speedrun lv1-7 on Maple Island, go ask them MapleF17
     
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  17. Chris
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    We are stupid, not efficient. My last character I used unripe onyx apples @ pigs.
    OnionMuha
     
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  18. OP
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    I assume those strats include quests on maple island which are not allowed this time around. Additionally, we are looking at a post-maple-island perspective as well. How do you set yourself up for success by optimizing BOTH maple island and post-maple island.
     
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    braidgame Pac Pinky

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    Agree, but i also believe there are some strategies only islanders know but we outsiders don't know.
    Such as optimal route for grinding on a certain map in Maple Island.
    Maybe not differ too much time I guess in low level... haha
     
  20. Chris
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    The only thing that would probably be allowed is using the cc strat when walking to the left. If you are walking in a map from right to left, cc’ing will essentially warp you to the left side of the map. This works for pretty much every map on maple island, but if you aren’t doing quests I don’t think you’ll be walking left that much, if at all.
     
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