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Trlnltyy's ML Horntail Guide

Discussion in 'Guides' started by Glaceon, May 30, 2023.

  1. Glaceon
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    Glaceon Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

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    10:09 PM
    Trlnltyy
    Bishop
    200
    Nani
    Hi everyone, just wanted to share my horntail guide with you all. It has been floating around a few discords for around two years now. I never felt like it was good enough to post to forums, but I've made quite a few edits in the past few weeks and I'm finally comfortable with sharing it here. It's quite lengthy, but enjoy!

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fe3bHTZ0YjFziv4PspqC7yx9C2ILiE3Ki0EBqIoxMDQ

    SamLo for all the content together since we started playing peak lockdown.

    xB0wM4sT3rx and RacheI for taking me into Nani and for organizing all the meetups.

    Nani & Vivid for being the best community I could’ve asked for (xB0wM4sT3rx, Rachei, SamLo, Codiacs, BakedDough, Postcard, babyfather, magykarp, Izek, Krypton, Stained, grieve, Nonon, Freefire, Furrious, Ddomi, AngryGuts, Archae, Camylla, Ditto, Fori, Waeri, GrimPal, jaewonnie, Jason, KyoumaGX, McWings, Luminera, Legoshi420, Mellon, MxPurple, Naise, peacha, oRob, Ophira, PeachRose, skiy, TheNarrowz, Temperate, theVIBEZ, Ahri, Unapprove, xAstraeus, Wonbin, xQueenT, areudumb, Supernovas, clebo, SunSun, CosmicEgg, CervezaSanta, ChickenWings, ChocoPi, whatdatoast, anyone else I may have missed).

    Ahoy/Morals for giving me HB (unwashed bish things) while we farmed skeles together.

    Iies/untrue for being the bishop on the run that sold me my HTP and for inspiring me to become a great bishop. Thanks for being so humble despite being the undisputed #1 bishop on the server.

    Intrigued, GenPengo and BlackApe for taking me on my first horntail and showing me the ropes.

    Zelretch for posting the original detailed horntail guide that limited my first month of ht's death rate to like.. 50% instead of 100% ^^ I can tell from the guide that Shay's a very technical player and I wish we could've had a chance to content together!

    ToastedDough for keeping me company at 5-6. and like all my other content tbh.

    Higurashi for spending countless hours hosting horntails and pink beans, and for retiring in style by twerking on stream after pb.

    ExplosionnNN/Bow4Fun for being the tea master.

    The Katsu gang (penguinvivi2, IRLHermit, WasabiYam, Wyman, nylsoj, davlia, Jollibae, SiriusPlaque, kkare, Burette, Ahoy, Cashew3, swimmy, Wyndex, DeepWood, Boopsy, beanies, Arcs) for inviting me to the toronto meetup and for just being really cool/positive people.

    The Nimbus crew (cIoudy, Sanji, beegoratto, Alaei, Sedentarily, Drizzly, xiaolongbaoo, all the OG Skizzy runners) for being super inclusive and for hosting some of the funniest/rowdiest 12 mans I've ever been on.

    argh for hosting our sunday afternoon horntail and spongebob streams (and for letting us crash at his place after flight delays).

    Freefire and margarmoo for the genshin sessions. #F2PGang.

    imTinii for being the GOAT. Crazy how quickly you managed to become the #1 bucc in the server. Also, storytime with Tini!

    Nonon for being the only bishop I’ve mentored sweaty enough to take the role of horntail bish as seriously as I do. You’re the future! If anyone's ever looking to form a super stacked 6 man roster, look no further than ign Nonon :^)

    Freefire, mard, beegoratto, Gurk, HEEM, Xiao, and all the other sweaties I’ve chat with into the early morning about horntail optimizations.

    beegoratto for proofing for me and suggesting material that I overlooked.

    All the players who have joined my runs despite me being the most low effort host ever (Awrien, Chaerizard, xB0wM4sT3rx, JoeWick, jawshbruh, Codiacs, argh, Ahoy, KENTOS, Fori, Cornwall, Freefire, BimboBucc, WasabiPotato, Legoshi420, TiniBikini, mushmate, Salladhor, AMZN, mo0n, mardi, Zo0py).

    Higurashi, TTKirnk, Cashew3, ExplosionnNN, and Hers for being the first horntail squad I ran with to achieve a 55min timer (early 2021 w/o sed mules).

    imTinii, mushmate, Pounds, Hers, and Ahoy for being the first horntail squad I ran with to achieve a 1h01m timer (early 2022 w/ sed mule).

    TiniBikini, mushmate, Salladhor, mardi, and Zo0py for being the first horntail squad I ran with to achieve a 1h06m timer (2023 w/ sed mule).

    Last but not least, everyone who let me use their clips for the guide and everyone in the clips.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 61
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  2. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Extremely well written and detailed guide, even veteran HT runners can learn something from reading this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
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  3. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    Amazing guide, thank you for sharing. I've got alot of use out of the earlier version of this guide when I first started running Horntail, as I'm sure many others have aswell.

    And thank you for mentoring IGN Nonon, running as seduce target with her has truly spoiled me forever. It all makes sense now.. (also she has some nutty dpms which she won't post smh).

    Regarding arm aggro a little not so well known trick is to hit the arm with disorder which resets the aggro, arms spawn in before wings so you should always be able to reach them. This works on almost all bosses to varying degrees but seems to be most useful at Horntail.
     
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  4. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    The absolute pinnacle for HT guides for all runners of any class and any level. A must-read for anyone who wants to run and improve their skills.
     
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  5. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    big fan
     
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  6. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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    woow, great work!
     
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  7. philip
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    philip Mixed Golem

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    47 pages of gold
     
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  8. Cashew2
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    Cashew2 Orange Mushroom

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    Katsu and Positive in the same sentence :vomit:

    Glad to see you back Trlnlty
     
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  9. Syrinz
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    Syrinz Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

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    Pogpeter Foxpat
     
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  10. TermiteLover
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    TermiteLover Brown Teddy

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    Based and bishop pilled :cigar:

    Idk if it stays 100% consistent, but I like to use summon order of wyverns to track when the next darks will spawn, ie order is blue->red->dark. Once d3/d4 happens, I try to HS after every dark wave the head spawns, just in case a cheeky dispell slipped through
     
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  11. Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    Excellent guide! Learning Horntail is truly bishops initiation rite and anyone up to the challenge is in good hands reading this work that not only has a perfect understanding of the class but also a lot of love.

    My advice to new bishops is to play brave and own your mistakes! your first task should be to get used to the environment, so dedicate special attention to the animations and don't fear taking action. As a bishop you are built to counter horntail so don't play with fear! death is also an amazing opportunity to learn.

    And Peter I think you are the humble one SlimeXD
    thank you for your words you also inspire me to be a better and more caring support SlimeBlush
     
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  12. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    it's a 1 minute cooldown per color, tracked separately. Usually the order stays the same the entire run but I've seen it switch sometimes just due to RNG.
     
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  13. OP
    OP
    Glaceon
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    Glaceon Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

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    Trlnltyy
    Bishop
    200
    Nani
    I personally don't rely on the summon order because like Blen said, it does change more often than not. I actually was curious about this very topic, so sometime last year, I recorded a run and took a look at every single head summon. Here are the results filtered by mid head because it was the last to die (most summons per head).

    upload_2023-5-31_16-4-51.png

    The order actually changes pretty often. Also, the cooldown for the dark wyvern summon is actually shorter than 1 minute (24:19 to 25:11). I'm guessing it's actually 60s for red, 55s for blue, and 50s for dark. The cooldown differences are similar in preheads (30s red, 25s blue, 20s dark). This doesn't mean I'd go so far as to say that tracking darks using pattern recognition during the run is a bad idea, but just keep it in the back of your mind that it may not always work. If you're unsure if darks are coming, there's nothing wrong with charging a big bang just in case.
     
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  14. Loon
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    Loon Slime

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    Best horntail guide ever made!
     
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  15. yogurtseller
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    yogurtseller Mixed Golem

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    when will the narrated audio book come out
     
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  16. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    PalladinoPalladino is all over this.

    One thing to add (not sure if it was included in the guide already), is that horntail heads telegraph their HP thresholds in 'learning' a new skill by freezing up for a short duration and not casting anything. This was actually one big part of the desyncing strategies in old HT since the timers get held off and shift the longer the head remains inactive in this 'learning' phase.

    It's probably not as ideal for Bishops to be staring at certain head parts for visual cues, but attackers (especially BMs) should be watching their targets pretty carefully and should be able to call out when Blue/Dark first spawns come into play.

    My theory is that this 'learning' time lag also applies to things like arms for when it starts to dispel or mass sed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2023
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  17. OP
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    Glaceon
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    Glaceon Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

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    Trlnltyy
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    Nani
    This is an interesting one. Is it a consistent thing? I just watched one of my old vods and none of the heads seem to pause much before D1. I'll pay closer attention on a future run for this to confirm!
     
  18. JKNS
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    JKNS Selkie Jr.

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    Hero, Dark Knight, F/P Arch Mage, I/L Arch Mage, Bishop, Night Lord
    60 55 50 and 30 25 20 is correct.
     
  19. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    Great guide with extreme understanding about HT, It was awesome chance for myself to review what I know. Especially, for bsp parts. no wonder bsp is so detail described. can be 2nd bible for bsp, I clearly can say. (1st is this one)

    Everything is agreeable but hope you don't mind for me having a bit different opinion about this.

    [​IMG]

    As who did many NL-less run or even range-less runs, I wish to say it's not so 'bad' to have many cleavers, but can be bad also if you aren't good with how cleavers mechanism works.

    I usually joke like ranged players HT runs as 'precise surgery' while cleaver players HT as 'making dragon meat mince'. It's mentioned like 'cleavers DPM is heavily RNG-based so isn't stable like ranges' and this is partially true, but in general, considering same level geard ranged vs cleavers, cleavers do way higher DPM in the end than ranges. Evidences would be well known by Gurk's DPM Compilation thread, by what I and Seah made together - especially considering her range and gears - it was essense of optimization on cleaver, on both strat and player skill.

    It is notoriously known that 'many cleavers = mass SED before heads = scuffed runs' or 'unskilled cleavers who don't know how2cleave - so doing nothing better than ranged', and this is why cleavers are hated in HT. I'd say, it's lack of management and player skill. In case I have many cleavers in my run, I assign them as 'designated one' and 'others', and make only designated one to focus on arms+wings cleaving while others mainly focus on heads. Cleavers have many position to deal with parts - likewise, LA + Wings + Legs, Legs + Tail, RA + Wings + Tail, RA + Wings + RH, RH + MH, LH + MH and LA + Wings + LA. This means, cleavers need to reposit a lot depends on wc conditions instead of sticking on one position, to maximize their potential dpm. This requires both player experience, and controlling of whole pties firepower not to make run scuffed, but once both host + playeres can deal with this, result was awesome in general, was able to boost main body progress a lot. Likewise, usually, range only pty needs to deal with quite healthy Wings + LA + RA for long time, which cleave-included pty needs to deal with Wings already dead + LA weaken already + RA which is almost 40%ish, makes run quite short in the end.

    I'd say, Range only pty or Heavily cleave weight pty has its cons and pros, can't say like 'one is absolutely better than another'. Pros and cons I noticed are :

    Ranged pty is, Very bsp friendly in wise of safety so you can hire lesser skilled bsps aswell. MH DP won't happen till almost end of LH (or RH, and this is why I joke like 'precise surgery'). LA DP also won't happen before heads going downed. Way lesser wyverns coming up because of ranges ability to focusfire on single target, Faster preheads, and usually pogger attackers because thanks for their being meta-classes, many sweaties fund on ranges. Also, easier for hosts to make strat because almost can let them autopilot.
    But one of the reason why I dislike range only pty is - notorious SE dc. Just imagine all attackers are NL+1 archer and 1 archer gets dced.

    Cleave heavy pty is, a bit harder for bsp to deal with because of constant damage on many parts so you need skilled bsp to deal with it, MH DP will happen earlier, wyverns would come out more than ranged only, also for hosts, need deep level of understanding about cleavers mechanism and HTs to maximize their utility, but once this condition gets satisfied, main body progress would be quite faster than range-only pty. Yes, I confess, I'm cleave attacker mains and It required lots of experience to 'squeeze out cleavers potential' but after getting it, result was way more satisfying than range-only composition. Also, way lesser vulnerable for sudden SE missing. in heavily NL-weighted composition, losing SE is a disaster, but as host who gets 0~2 NLs in general, it wasn't too hurt like such composition. Being lesser dependant for certain buff, aka flexibility and independancy, was remarkable pro for this composition. Just needed more understanding about player skill and overall strat, for both host and players, to get this pro - and this would be biggest con I think.

    Except this, I totally loved time I spent to read your guide, really appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2023
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  20. Mirrors
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    Mirrors Zakum Retired Staff

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    WeenieHutJrs
    [​IMG]

    Can we talk about how the poison mist during legs/tail is literally horntail farting on you. I had no idea it literally lifted up it's tail to poot on you and poison your entire party
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
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