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Yeah absolutely, and the moment you kill 1 out of targets way before the others, you are basically cucking your cleave partner and reducing their damage output by 1/3.
Im not exactly sure whats the "main target" of orbs biggest hit, because i know for a fact you can make it hit lowest number on first target hit (easily observable on 7f fishes if you stand on top shelf, where first target hit gets hit for 2000 and golems below get hit for 40k)

I do think Bucc could have pretty cool niche of "prio target" mechanic, which it already does with barrage and demo, but in CWK cleave situation that goes through the window.
For example if Orb dealt damage FIRST based on target with most HP, not on who spawned in map the oldest or whatever it does right now

Or you know, if were supposed to do just magepin, give us some mechanic that we dont have to mandatory mule bishop just for dispel...

Also, from this recent patch, the rough estimation is that we got nerfed by 25~ on damage output. a minor detail. At least from what i gathered from people i spoke with and my own character

 

Its been a while since ive thought about it, but I think orb damage lines showed in order based on the coordinates of the targets. I dont think CL had this behavior. Didn't bother to check if the damage actually applies in a matching fashion, but ive seen enough lines lie over the years to not immediately accept it.

Reducing orb falloff quickly creates decent cleave value for a class that already has everything else. Are we willing to give up something else for a touch of cleave? Itd also become a spam skill like demo, but with even more uptime than ST.

Anniv patch was also just a pretty large dpm buff compared to prior, in a time when many players actually believed bucc already did too much damage.

 

I think theres a spot where you could have bucc be "acceptable" cleave but not straight up griefing your partner. DS is griefing, orb now also kinda griefing. It was less of a problem with anni orb numbers, but had same issue i think.

Dont think anyone is asking for bucc to have multitarget presence of a Hero

 

It already currently exists with Energy Blast, even more so now that charging is faster.

 

Yes, my opinion was 'if buccs cleave dpm actually needs buff, because it's too weak now', to suggest way it should go.
I'd keep my word for 'so bucc needs buff on cleave dpm or not?', I don't think it's good idea to even talk about it as 0 bucc experience player.

Answer for 'how far buccs even-dmg distribution dpm should go? 80% of hero? 90%? or 110%?' would be questions for who is experienced.

Only thing I can talk is - if your cleave partner is bucc, can you clear cwkpq in resonable time? - answer from me is yes, but this can be biased aswell thinking of too high lvl on my hero/drk toolkit.

 

im not a scientist but

 

Ugh, orbs delay is same with blast spam delay..? (I really don't know)
I think we need to approach on 'dpm', not 'damage per shot'. If we approach on 'damage per shot' only, Dragon strike beats everythings.

 

Cleave scenarios are limited by the target taking the least DPM, not your overall damage, since warriors will be cleaving all targets equally regardless.

 

yeah i brought that up above, ends up being 2 bosses dead, and one left at 40% hp or whatever, hence its griefing kind of

Blast is faster i think i dont know exact delay on it. So i ended up testing it on dummies.

3 target orb spam in 1 minute


3 target blast spam in 1 minute


I have to admit! i was wrong, blast is better than orb on 3 targets! And that gap is going to be even wider if you have access to SE.
That does put things in perspective for me for sure.

The only problem might be actually hitting all targets with blast due to its rather small aoe

 

https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/nises-formula-compilation.36234/

Blast is like 36% faster than orb, so it easily clears 3-target orb even without factoring the uneven damage distribution leading to significantly reduced effective dpm

 

to put in perspective how tiny blast is
its impossible to hit all 4 dummies here with it, you can get 3 at most, and this hits only 2

 

It's big enough to hit all 3 CWK bosses and Auf clones with relative reliability. It's passable as is, making it any stronger is just adding power creep to what is arguably already one of the best classes in the game.

 

So let me gather my thoughts for a second:
1) blast is better on 3 and 4 target cleave than orb, especially in CWK situation
2) Orb niche is hitting multiple spread targets or as a filler between barrages for single target dps outside of ST
3) 4 targets you have to use either DS or snatch if available
4) Orb got overnerfed

Am i right in this

 

1) Yes
2) Usually just single-target filler. It's rare you'll actually get to hit spread targets due to bouncing code interactions with origin point
3) There are almost no sustained 4 target cleave scenarios in bossing outside of JC clones
4) No, Orb is fine in single-target scenariors outside of ST

 

whats your 7f farming like

 

Yeah it was hard to know precisely thanks for lots of delay change on recent balance updates, Nise's numbers post was outdated for buccs. Thanks for detailed testing, was good to learn new aswell <3

Fun fact : none of us are mentioning about sHoCkWaVe

 

There's spots to stand on either side and reach basically everything with dragon strike. The golems get lured in and enter the blast+ds grinder. If youre strong enough, you can even just hold ds and waveclear. There are scenarios where a bunch of orb bounces reaches farther than ds, but it requires specific monster positioning and ds is already such a massive reach.

But also 7f lul

 

I feel ashamed for whenever questions about 7F comes out all I can say is

'I have no idea bc I fall asleep in 3mins anyway there, I haven't ever actually grinded there...'

 

ive done a LOT of 7f the moment i got strong enough for it on my bucc. But back then we had our overpowered orb :^)

 

one of the few times q leveled my bucc outside SIing my pally i went 7f duo with ssk + energy blast, was getting 60m eph (duo) for reference (didnt use other skills than this 2)