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HERO!

 

HERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

189 Hero, first character I've ever made, and despite it's shortcomings I love this class so much. I'm glad this thread's finally come.

Of the proposed changes, I absolutely love the changes to Combo Attack. One of my biggest frustrations currently is the inconsistency of orb generation and damage. If you panic chain, you always have to go back to 5 orb dmg for a bit, and deal with weaker Brandish lines on your way back to 10 orbs. Not to mention, the orb generation itself is rng, and Hero currently has 0 bonuses to mastery, so it leads to panic chaining overall feeling less rewarding than it should be.

Obviously, range increase on Panic and Coma is nice. No complaints there. However, I'm not a fan on Panic being reverted to consuming all orbs, but I may have a different opinion depending on how it feels in practice/what the orb damage scaling changes exactly entail. But from existing experience, I like the rhythm of using Panic when it only consumes 5 orbs (minus the rng orb generation). I'm really hoping Panic staying at a 5 orb cost is kept (heck, maybe even make Coma also cost 5 orbs too).

The push for Armor Crash being one of Hero's "niches" has always been a bit strange to me, but the proposed change would at least give them an advantage of sorts over a simple bishop mule using Dispel. Either way, though, PLEASE speed up the cast time of the skill. It's so horrendously slow, especially compared to the aforementioned Dispel. Heck, speed up the other crash skills too.

Enrage has a lot of potential as what can define the class and give it a strong niche, but the open-endedness kinda makes it tricky to even gauge what it should be. I personally liked one suggestion of making Enrage give an extra, weaker line on all skills/attacks. So basically, 3 line Brandish, and 2 line Panic/Coma/Shout/Power Strike/Slash Blast/etc. I feel this would, alongside just adding a little more damage, make SE sliiiiiiightly nicer on Hero, and may fix the issue of Panic hitting the damage cap when using apple or just having very cracked gear (or both).
Of course, giving it some sort of offensive party utility that ideally can stack with existing offensive buffs would probably be more beneficial in the recruitment of Heroes in content. Either way though, if the stacking atk buff remains, please bump it up to 10 atk. 6 is an underwhelming and non-divisible-by-5 amount and it irks me.

 

Would love to see a Buff to the Rage skill from 20 weapon attack --> 25 weapon attack

 

[Placeholder for unfettered thoughts and ideas]



1. Would like to see Rage duration go up from 4 mins -> 5 mins to match Sharp Eyes and Speed Infusion 5 min timer at max level.

2. Would like to see Enrage be a party buff that adds stackable +6wa to the whole party at max level. 4 mins active, 6 mins cooldown. Even if rage is replaceable by cider, enrage isn't. Or a +50wa for 1 min duration buff at max level, self buff.

3. Would like to know if panic damage scaling change will prevent panic from hitting damage cap at high attack ranges. Currently there is a diminishing marginal return on using Panic if using Gelts or Apples which means the gameplay is still brandish only all the time

4. Most important buff Hero can get IMO -> Panic deals an additional line, either through Enrage or at max orbs. Makes the damage cap less of an issue, increase single target damage.

 

Interesting application of Armor Crash!...

 

Buff Axes on Hero pls! Let Axe Hero be a viable alternative to Sword Hero.

 

I love the proposed changes to Advanced Combo Attack and Panic/Coma. This would be a huge QoL for Hero Gameplay.

The Armor Crash change also sounds great, and rewards active Hero gameplay while at the same time discouraging muling a Bishop for absolutely everything. As an alternative suggestion for Armor Crash, the skill can be changed to not rely on an enemy casting a Defense buff, and instead just reduce the enemy's defense by a fixed % whenever it is casted.

Allowing Enrage to affect the entire party is a great change, as it would give a legitimate reason for bossing parties to have a Hero in their composition and would justify its current cooldown. +5 WA to the entire party that stacks on top of other bonuses is huge, but it will be throttled by the cooldown which will require Hero's to be smart in timing its usage.

Also, to retain Enrage's extra advantages to the Hero who casts it, can we please make the Hero immune to enemy dispels while Enrage is active? Heroes are very susceptible to being dispelled on account of how many buffs we have to manage, whenever we are dispelled it feels like we are taken out of the fight for far too long rebuffing. Coupling dispel immunity with Enrage (on a cooldown) would allow Heros to carve out offensive windows of undisrupted attacks, and also feeds into the trope of being in an "unstoppable rage"

As an additional recommendation, can we please buff Shout to affect 15 enemies and increase the stun chance from 95% -> 100%? It is a skill that already has very few niche uses, and buffing it in these ways would (1) allow the skill to better mirror DK's Roar as the more crowd control/team support variant and (2) remove the small amount of unpredictability out of the skill, which given the proposed changes, both seem in line with the intended goal of the class.

 

Hero players you are allowed back in my party

 

I'd be interested in hearing some potential additional perks for enrage that others have in mind. What do y'all think about enrage giving some crit chance, either passive or active?

Damage scaling per-orb has been adjusted.

Will this create more variance between using panic/coma with less orbs vs more? ​

 

Skills aside, I would love to see axes given more relevance. From a game design perspective, I've never understood why Neckson made swords so much better than their classes unique weapon counterparts (mace, axe).

 

I think Enrage should focus on giving extra solo bonuses to the Hero. Since Armor crash and Rage are going to be party focused

 

HERO THREAD?

Hell yeah!! Some initial thoughts around these changes before letting the idea stew:

I have mixed feelings about this one. The combo attack adjustments are totally welcome, but I'm not too sure about the Panic changes. Currently, you cast Panic every 3-5 brandish hits. This would shift this to every 5 brandish hits instead. While there can be damage scaling changes to make up for that lost dpm, Hero players would move closer to hitting the dmg cap on Panics. I need to chew on this more, but I think this could be a buff in some scenarios and a rough nerf in others. For a lot of Heroes, appling would be stronger pre-changes due to the dmg cap and more frequent panics. (Don't even want to think about folks with insane gear.)

A great compromise would be to keep the 5-orb cost towards Panic (and maybe apply it to Coma), giving the player a bit more freedom. Since the Combo scaling is applied at 1 orb, should I stack 10 and double Panic despite Panic 2 being weaker? Do I stick to the usual route of slamming 1 Panic every time I hit 10 orbs? It would be so sick if the player had some agency to decide where to prioritize their damage.

Hero has the fortune design where you could prioritize cleave, or weaker cleave + single target. Using Panic while there was cleave opportunity meant a potential dpm loss, but instead focused higher damage onto a single target. I think expanding on that nuance would make me personally a bit more happy.

Total cleave? -> Brandish spam brrrrrrr (Edit: or I guess now Brandish 5x -> 1x Coma?)
Single target? -> Brandish 5x for 10 orbs, 2x Panic
Cleave while mixing in some single target dpm? -> Brandish 5x -> Panic 1x -> Brandish 3x -> Panic 1x

Leaving in the 5 orb cost to Panic offers a path for Hero to deal their best single target dpm, their best cleave dpm, or a "jack of all trades master of none" path. pls do something like this I like decision trees

this is SICK!! The only issue I can find with this buff, as well as the other buffs given to DK and Pally, is that not a looooot of content casts defense up. It's a very welcome change, it would just be nice to see more opportunities to use it. This would also go for the other warriors!! I'm not sure if adding attack or defense up to a lot of content would be a good change for ML in general though.

Most of all, I love that it encourages communication with your bishops. Please don't dispel X buff, we need it for party buffs! good stuff good stuff

Will post some ideas for Enrage in a separate post, this one is too long as it is.

 

Does rage still override cider? It's a small change but a good QoL if it didn't.

 

the crashes changes are interesting attempt to disrupt the bishop muling meta

 

I'd also second that Enrage should be a buff to the Hero only. It just wouldn't make sense for other party members to be "enraged" as well. It also wouldn't make sense for enrage to "wound" the monster/boss so that they would take more damage from all sources.

 

IMO, the current attack boost for Enrage is seemingly underwhelming for a cooldown of 6 minutes.
This may be a long shot, but to reference future versions of Hero, perhaps rework enrage entirely?
Keep the 6 minute cooldown, increase the damage output similar to Berserk from Dark Knight (doesn't to be as high of a damage boost, but somewhere in that ballpark), and reduce all targets of attack to 1.
I think this can be a very interesting take on Hero, changing it from cleave to just pure DPS for a short amount of time. Of course, this may mean that there has to be some work in the background to make it so that Hero's single target hits the monster with the most HP (basically ignoring adds and focus only on the boss).

240 seconds may seem too long for this boost, so maybe reduce it to 120 seconds at max level to balance it out.

I feel like this embodies the concept of enrage a lot.

Just an opinion, feel free to ignore.

 

Will it be possible for the damage scale (panic/coma specifically) for 5 orbs and 10 orbs to be the same?

Typically combo for single target now is panic > 3 brandish > repeat
With new proposed changes, combo is panic > 5 brandish > repeat
While the new brandish portion has higher dpm, i'll imagine single dpm overall is about the same given that there is going to be more brandish in the combo mix.

Having damage scale being the same between 5 orbs and 10 orbs means the single target combo remains the same at 3 brandish > panic, which should result in ~10-15% increase in single dpm

If damage scale between 5 vs. 10 orbs can't be the same, enrage as a party buff will make it more attractive as an attker in specifically pb - which is sth heroes struggle to get in at times.

proposed armor crash is nice - but specifically only useful in high armor bosses with armor up. the only one i could think of is BGA which is great but not that important since hero is the best class there already. i would much prefer the animation of armor crash to be shorter instead as it takes as long as a genesis, when dispel is a lot quicker

 

This sounds great!

 

Hero is my very first character since I started in the server a year ago and now that I’m in the "later" part of the game, the thing that stands out to me most is how buff-dependent we are. This stands out when we get dispelled by bosses.

Power Guard + Stance + Rage + Sword/Axe Booster + Combo Orbs. Without these we drop off pretty hard. (Along with other buffs like Enrage, MW and SI if needed - but not going to highlight these since there are other classes that experience the same without them, and Enrage is just a nice bonus)

I was wondering if it would be practical to make Combo Orbs a passive skill so we have one less thing to cast? Or similar to Drk’s Berzerk, make the 3rd job combo attack passive and advanced combo attack active with adjustments to the additional damage received from orbs?

Also, for Panic/Coma, "The skills can now be cast while having at least 1 Orb", couldn't we do this already?

Happy to hear different perspectives about this or if this is just a bad idea completely.