Feedback Upcoming Night Lord updates and plans

I actually enjoyed the active shifter change and was getting used to its niche uses. Most of it felt intuitive and I liked the guarantee of a dodge. I wished the direction of changes was instead to buff the active shifter through its duration or with a reduction of the cooldown -- or maybe incorporating a condition to reduce the cooldown. Get rid of the stun cleanse and instead grant a conditional immunity like using dark sight while in active shifter = dodge stun/sed.

I think the community lash back was more from the implied direction of meta shift more than the actual impacts to the class. People have built their infrastructure for years due to a stale meta. For a game so slow to change such as this, toppling metas means major shifts to years worth of planning.

 

It is a fine opinion. Yes im opposed to a damage nerf, why would I want my class to become worse?

 

Shifter Passive : 30%, but -20% damage nerf (from 0%)
Shifter Active : 0%, but +20% damage buff (from 0%)
Skill is Toggleable

This tackles two things:
1) Reduce efficiency of multiclient NL due to lower damage. This also allows the OG shifter enjoyers to smile every time they shift successfully
2) Reduce high dependency to SE for active NL players who want to contribute to bossing and don't mind having no passive shifter like currently.

 

90% of stance is already a scam.
I dont think it would be matter either passive ss is 30% or 15%. Not to mention to a nerf on coefficient of luk and avoid.

 

maplelegends is saved!!!! thank you BT. I'm very happy with these changes DDD
I'd be happy even if it was 15% dodge without the active that gives u dmg increase.

NL is COOL AGAIN

I've seen people bargain for 17.5%, but honestly 2.5% difference is nothing to me. I'm just happy to have the old shifter back.

It's interesting to see that this will divide the people within the group that was against the shifter changes initially. We'll see who was really about the identity and who was really all about the dpm I guess xD

But as someone who has nonstop whined about shifter, I am very excited and happy about these upcoming changes <3


also: I like NL being dependent on SE and other things like a needy baby. it creates a lot of interesting dynamic and carries old school rpg vibes where convenience isn't everything

 

From just a quick read and first impressions, I actually am really interested in some of these solutions and think they're really creative! Having FJ be something that can help stack up a shifter avoid increase is an interesting way to ensure people aren't sitting around holding a button, and gives something to do during WC moments too. Kudos for this idea.

Having a blend of active and passive shifter is also interesting, though I don't know if a defense nerf is what I'd want to exchange for the active portion, speaking as an HP challenge NL. I have to be really careful with my HP and heavy hits are very dangerous for me, though I know it's not an issue if you're a 30k NL and it's just a really sick temporary damage buff with no downside.

Putting that defense exchange aside, I'm also part of the small minority that thinks it's fine to nerf NL damage across the board a bit, especially if you are not nerfing every other insane aspect of the class, so I'm not allergic to this idea. Whatever you choose to implement just needs to feel like there's some positive to the negative, some exchange involved so NLs can feel rewarded for proper gameplay, not just penalized. Some people will whine no matter what, but I think active NLs will appreciate it.

So for example, I think if you're going to:
- Nerf damage to some degree across the board
- Have shifter be a passive 15% now

Then it's also perfectly fair to have new shifter:
- Have the active part of shifter bump to a higher % avoid temporarily
- Have the active part of shifter bump the damage output significantly and temporarily

Then NL isn't just a braindead big damage class with no effort, which is the primary concern for BT - you have to actually time active shifter for the best chance of dealing big damage, and you have the option to stack avoid in empty moments with FJ if you want a bit more of a benefit. Plenty of classes have this mechanic of temporary big damage big benefits for a little while, and it's perfectly fair to have NL have their own version of it. If you want to be an insanely strong class, it shouldn't be with impunity, after all - Goku doesn't sit there going Super Saiyan while watching Netflix and eating chips. Someone being strong always is some twelve year old Mary Sue fanfic stuff.

But anyway that was just my impression from a quick look between work emails. Interested in others and their opinions! (Though if you're just going to complain to just revert everything because you think NL should be the king class and have no interest in actually entertaining the prospect of balancing it, perhaps keep it to yourself. We know you don't like it. We get it. Shhhh.)

 

The only binary choice that should be on the table is whether the community wants the old nightlord back?

The community's answer is clearly yes.

 

vote with your feet

 

To be honest all these changes just seems to increase complexity while not going anywhere really, even current NL seems better

 

I think the main issue is the knockback and repositioning in bosses. not only for NL but all classes. Since it happends on every hit. Look at Archers for example the use 1 attack, 1 second later the boss hits them and they stop hitting and need to reposition. same with warriors and shads but they were giving power stance. I think it would be much more fun for all classes if the normal boss attacks dont knock back. Only certain boss skills that are designd to knockback should knockback. That way it does not matter if the boss hits or miss you as much. And it will help other classes to get higher dpm in so in a way that also makes the dmg gap between NL smaller.
Power stance will become useless but maybe thats for the better so it could be replaced with some other skill that might be even better.

 

I think a cleaner redesign is the better solution.

Get rid of the active shifter mechanic, it adds unnessary complexity to the class. Flash jump adding avoid is also completely unnessary, nightlord does not need a way to build up extra dodge rate. Just give them enough static dodge rate.

If you are going to lower the base damage of the nightlord, so be it. Just revert shifter accordingly.

I would prefer if you started at a pure shifter revert (30% dodge) with a damage decrease and adjust from there.

The easiest way to adjust base damage of NL in this scenario is going to be to change triple throw damage %. It is very granular, and will let you pick a fine tuned number. For example, with SE, TT 140% to 150% is a 3.3% dpm increase. Changing the TT damage % should be an easy way to fine tune.

 

I'm seconding the sentiment here. Adding a stack-based mechanic to Flash Jump seems overcomplicated for how little it changes.

Just to throw an idea: what if Shadow Partner was what reduced avoidability? You can't hide in your shadow if you've pulled it from the ground to fight with you. Would go with number changes and give thieves the option if they prefer more damage or more avoidability, whether due to their setup, the content, or the phase of the content.

 

Someone explain to me why Night Lord is so powerful like I'm stupid, as there seems to be a clear consensus that they're OP and in need of nerfs though I have no idea why. I wanna know what content they're the best class at and what I should expect if I reach a roughly 1k coin investment in the class that most casual players end with.

 

I agree with this as someone who views Night Lord as a class that needs adjustments/nerfs. I feel there's better answers to balancing Night Lord than what you proposed here but I do think this is a better option than messing with the comfortable aspects of the class such as avoid.

 

btw a nice way to achieve that is to give players incentives to play classes hard to multi attack buff corsair

 

Night Lords exchange independence (they are entirely SE dependent, leveling up requires either leech or bossing with parties), lack of any form of cleave utility, and limited exp/meso grinding options (7F, Memory Lane 5, etc) in exchange for excelling at a single very specific thing: high damage per minute in single-target boss fights. They are an example of a very min-max class, with very strong advantages, and very heavy disadvantages.

The reason people like to talk about them being OP, is that "single thing" is very prevalent in three of the prominent end-game bosses, and people don't assign weight to their very real downsides.

Edit: To clarify, I'm saying that NL's aren't as OP as people claim.

 

buff content that's not pb and ht

buff hero, mm and sairs, especially sairs