Feedback Upcoming Night Lord updates and plans

What about banish into a small easy jump quest map. where FJ and TP can not be used. like 2maps before Mushmom in the spikepit. those attacks could be on a timer maybe or side step, jump or duck able, or iframe conter or block able. some options to avoid it and even when it just takes a little time to get back but for a multi clienter could be very anoying.

 

Could it be useful to make a class tier list or something based on dps in bosses. That way if dmg changes are applied and it spot in the tier list remains unchanged it is acceptable? Maybe use a test server with test bosses to measure the dpm of different classes for it.

I think classes who depends on buffs should have higher dpm then classes who profided the buffs. since the buff sharing make them useful and dpm classes dont have useful buffs to share their only contribution is doing dmg.

The % dpm difference between these classes can variate but should not have a to big gap. Then it becomes Over powerd.

For single target attacking (krex or toad or something simple)

I think this might be a good tier list for classes dpm with similair gear.

1 Corsair (need si and se)
2 NL (need se)
3 Archers, shads, Bucc (dont rely on anything), Pally (need si, not a good cleave, elemental dmg should be nr2 dmg on certain elemantal bosses)
4 DK Hero (Need si but is more cleave dmg so should not out dmg single targets)
5 Mages (Utility class or Heavy elemental dmg, utility always needed, elemental dmg nr 1 dmg at certain bosses)

I also think shads need crit in their skill tree, so they also need to rely on SE and can be on par on dpm with NL.

What do you think? Is this even possible? Is the order ok?

*This is only theoretical*

I wanted to share this because might there be a dmg nerf on NL. I dont want it to become totally useless in the party since the class is made for bossing with one goal in mind dong damage.

 

God I'm dead.

 

Let's be happier campers today and talk about buffs for a second - not which nerf pill we'd prefer to swallow.

Shadow Web
There is no feedback on this skill about whether it missed a monster's hitbox, or it missed on the 80% chance to catch them.
I would like to see some feedback, or better yet, have 100% chance to catch.

The "secret" 3.3% damage over time does not work on high health non-boss monsters. (jc clones, imperial guards, I never tested on BGA summons excluding Anego)
I would like for it to work, at least up to some max damage per tick. 3.3% of 20m would of course be too crazy.
Night Lord have always been perhaps the worst cleave class and with increasingly cleave-favoured content being introduced, this could help them be more useful or at least accepted.

 

Night Lord Rework


I’ll start by saying, I love the OG NL, been one in pre-bb GMS, in previous private servers, and also here in Legends. I like NL for it’s pros and cons (being top dpm, very mobile, and easy to play, alongside being very expensive and time consuming to build, and unable to grind and cleave like other classes).


Sadly I understand that reverting to that is not really an option, due to multi attacking (which is something I personally resort to as well, but I do hate it).


I understand NL rework is needed, and some changes must feel major, but might appear necessary in order to maintain the identity of the Night Lord- shifty, mobile, “high-avoid”, top dpm class. I’ll use this opportunity to suggest a rework that could potentially make NL playstyle more engaging (but not a repositioning game..), that would reward an active playstyle and “punish” afk playstyle, to encourage single client attacking.


First thing’s first, I think avoid changes to all classes should be reverted, it currently mostly hurts lower levels and unfunded players much more than it would hurt someone with 3 level 200 NLs.


The concept of the rework is short durations - buffs and cooldowns.

Short durations inherently require you to be there and be active to optimize your playstyle.

I’m bad with numbers and calculation formulas, so I’ll give numbers to get the idea through but it is definitely up for debate and tweaks.


Passive Shifter: Bring back passive shifter, reduce dodge rate to 15%
Active Shifter: Active shifter is used for a single hit dodge at 100%, and is stackable upon consecutive shifts. Each stack would reward the player with X% critical damage and last for 5 seconds. Once a player successfully dodges hits using shifter 5 times in a row, he enters shifter mode which grants full crit dmg boost (5stacks) and 50% passive shifter (with active shifter disabled) for 15seconds. When shifter mode is over, active shifter stacking go in 30sec cooldown (but active shifter is again enabled).

“Punishment” - Active shifter has a 2 second cooldown so as to not spam it. Stack count resets after 5sec buff is over or if active shifter is used incorrectly and doesn’t dodge a hit. Being hit without mis-using active shifter does not reset stack count.


In regards to what I said earlier- the reward on being active is obviously the boost in damage and the ability to dodge most hits- in exchange for a very active playstyle. The punishment for “AFK playstyle” should be a decrease in damage, and since I suggest avoidability changes revert AND 15% shifter, I assume TT %dmg reduction is inevitable. As to how much % damage is reduced and how much % crit damage is gained per stack that I leave to BT and math experts


Once again, I love NLs, I really do enjoy the class, and I hate seeing the solution to problems being “just nerf” and not a fitting rework. I understand some things are a LOT of work and may take time, but I do want to see things go in a healthier direction rather than just nerfing.

 

just nerf

im a purist. keep it as preciously close to ogms as possible pls

 

If that is how it already works, coool.

I tested on an imperial guard, and it does 32767 damage every 3s. (16 bit signed integer )
Perhaps someone can do the math for me to determine if that's horrible or already surprisingly good for Shadow Web's cast time and duration - compared to holding down triple throw.
But at least it never felt like its a meaningful minion-only cleave supplement. It would be great if it currently was, or improved to be great.

 

1 cast if it hits is 655.340 dpm. Which is 3.932.040 dpm on 6 targets

 

are you referring to hp washing?
I'm pretty sure we still have that.. which I'm not complaining

I'm all for removing everyone's hp washing back to baseline hp and i am not kidding
but I understand it's unfair when someone had invested long for something then the something gets changed drastically all of a sudden
so it's probably not a good idea even if it's better for the future health of the game

maybe we can give people who washed a 20% dmg reduction for keeping their hp?

 

Are we getting a thread for marksman too?

 

Why don’t we just have normal shifter and the more attacks you do without getting hit, the more dmg/crit you do up to a certain % and SE does help NL but not dependent on it? Maybe something like that would work but I’ve never gotten to use normal shifter so idk how often you actually get hit

 

How about making crit chance (or crit damage, or TT damage) dependent on your distance from the monster? Either higher the closer you are, or define another optimal distance.

I understand repositioning isn't everyone's favorite activity, but it would be a simple way to require more active play to reach max DPM. With the problem being that NL is both powerful and comfortable, I would prefer a nerf to the comfort rather than the power, while also keeping changes as minor as possible.

I'm still trying to catch up on reading all the previous posts, sorry if something like this has already been discussed.

 

10% chance for triple knockback that launches you across entire map HOLY

 

remove NL class so that NL hate can be redirected to another class.

 

A small Hermit suggestion: when Shadow Web is applied to a flying enemy, hold that enemy in place rather than having it drop to the bottom of the map. Seems more fitting to my idea of how a "web of shadow of oneself" (that's what the skill description says) may work, and I'm not aware of any other skills that truly freeze flying enemies in the air. I think that would give the Hermit toolkit something unique and probably make the skill slightly more useful for hunting flying enemies. Would this change have any poor repercussions in later game bosses?

After some thought I generally support 100% success rate for Shadow Web at max level. I'd prefer to not make the skill too strong, and this change would increase its experience/hr values... but I'd like to see the Web reliably serve its "primary" purpose by stopping enemies. That is if you assume that Shadow Web is "primarily" for stopping enemies so the player doesn't claw punch, and "secondarily" for grinding through 3rd job by spamming it on much higher level enemies. I love Shadow Web

Edit: I'd like to repeat, I still think that the Flash Jump dodge rate idea could use more time in the oven to be less awkward and pessimal for its stated use "moving around maps, or boss downtime." It seems as if it should work for a higher count of Shadow Shifter procs and apply only to non-boss monsters, or at least that is the quickest bandage I could think to slap onto it. My other attempts thus far to make it seem less awkward just make it all feel all the more awkward, or more similar to neo-Maple. I'd also hope that the buff would be invisible to the player and not visual vomit in the active buffs list.

 

I do personally think its kind of weird that NLs rely so heavily on SE for their damage output and cant imagine playing it myself.

Never considered changing it so the benefit of SE is less, but also self buffed NL having bigger damage output?

I guess all the dedicated NLs have SE mules already