Feedback Upcoming Night Lord updates and plans

No because presumably this new content is profitable. Apple costs are a drop in the bucket compared to the profits.

 

These proposed changes seem alright, actually. Even if only at 15%, I'm glad that a comeback of the classic passive effect is being considered. The mechanic of being able to trade it for more damage output seems interesting as well.
The FJ mechanic seems interesting, but potentially clunky/awkward/minor? But it also wouldn't negatively impact anything, at least. And the idea of FJing into the wall during a zak wc sounds funny af.
And giving some sort of new effect to Ninja Ambush would be really nice. NL could use another skill that you actively want to put SP into in 4th job.

Also unironically, I wouldn't totally mind this either. NL having the identity as the "QoL range" but the other ranges who lack the pleasures of such a strong dodge rate being able to outpace them in dpm (assuming similar gearing) would be pretty ideal.

At the end of the day, I just want the passive effect to be preserved, really. I don't care if it's nerfed % or if there's a compensation nerf to another aspect of NL (as I think the class pre-anni was definitely quite OP). To me, the passive effect is important to the identity of NL and Shad.

 

It may be worth considering the creation of an official discussion thread on the impact of multi-attacking on the game. I can't shake the feeling that a lot of the recent balance changes were done to adjust the viability of multi-attacking, even if the posts didn't explicitly state so.

I'd be curious to see more data, and perspectives, on how multi-attacking is effecting the current game, and the economy. How many people are actually operating multi-NL setups? How much are they actually benefiting?... is it hurting the game, or the economy? ...or are they still making less meso/hr. than a single Petri Leech seller?

We see a lot of collateral damage to single-client players, under what I can only assume is the pretense of balancing multi-*, when single-clients far, far, far, outnumber multi-attackers. Meanwhile, I'm actually unsure how much the multi-attackers are benefiting from their ability.

 

Big Apple lobby vs Apple picker union

 

Is anyone even making multi-NL setups anymore? I haven't actually heard of any currently being made. There sure are a lot of other classes being mass produced though

 

With ''these changes'' I referred to the anni changes and what's proposed in OP, basically the direction staff is pushing towards. Agree with what you say here ^

 

Hi, just throwing some ideas I had in mind:

1. Regarding the shifter situation, I agree with what said before that shifter will be 17.5% passive + active. when active it avoid all attacks for 15sec + gives bonus attack (either raw weapon att / shadow partner increase to higher than 50%)

2. The idea of adding dodge rate to FJ from what I understand was to mainly to give more dodge rate while traveling. what about instead of giving 1% each FJ, give set amount of % to dodge rate when FJ for 10sec and when using attacking skill (TT/avenger) it cancel it. that way you gain the extra dodge rate for traveling and can't abuse it while bossing.

3. Adding new skill that gives NL increase crit rate and damage similar to SE but inferior that is not stackable with SE. that way NLs that play solo and don't rely on SE can have a little boost in dmg and it won't affect bossing in parties since you can't stack it with SE.

4. Regarding SI with NLs as far as I know NLs don't really get any benefit from SI since they get to max attack speed with their own booster. how about when NLs has their booster + SI that exceed the max speed (2) they get increase attacking speed.

 

Not the best at balancing since im just a brainless gamer who spends some time off work to game. but I feel like whatever changes that is being made to tackle MultiClient(without outright removing it) will always hurt the single client in someway if the approach is to nerf the classes being "abused" so might i suggest just removing multi client instead if the aim is to reduce/target the multi clienters? outright ban them if you have to. making the game more interactive is not what I signed up for when I registered for OLD SCHOOL MapleStory.

 

There's merit in trying to design content such that it encourages cooperation and the involvement of more players. But, if the objective is to minimize players being substituted by mules, isn't Bishop muling a much greater offender than multi-attacking? Think about content like 18-man Pink Bean, if the metric is "substituting out players", I would make the argument that the impact of multi-NL's is much much smaller than the impact from Bishop muling.

I believe multi-attacking is quite powerful. But, I don't think it currently has such an outsized impact on the game that balance changes need to be made that would introduce collateral damage on single-client players.

But, this thread isn't about multi-attacking. I believe that's a discussion of itself that I would love to see. I don't want to derail the discussion of these specific proposed NL skill changes.

 

Mm, I can see what you're advocating here and see the vision of it dissuading multiing and appling excessively, but with enough funds I don't think the people it's intended for will blink twice, it'll be a slight sting is all, while people with less funding will get caught in the crossfire and feel the burn much more. It potentially becomes a form of gatekeeping in content.

 

while I deeply sympathize with what you said, Kimmy said multiple times that multi-clienting is NOT going away due to multiple reasons.

The biggest difference is NL atk mules get like 4-5x the splits of a bish mule

Also, what you said about how many ppl are doing multi-NL, was exactly what people said about multi-mage farming, and those methods were nerfed over time, while not making them useless. BT isn't making multi-NL useless, they're just trying to make it not as easily scalable.

 

The same can be said for multimage grind/leech vs multiattack NL. Multimage has a much larger impact on the game, destroying (party) quest and low level grind viability. It's a bit odd that the focus is where it is.

 

Remember when class balance was about allowing single target and cleave to thrive in their niche? Everything seemed fine when we were following that roadmap.

 

I think a raw +att buff for active shifter as opposed to a % buff will be a nice way for lower funded NLs to feel good about their DPM without introducing crazy dmg scaling for top-tier NLs.

Also agree that a non-SE-stackable crit skill is a nice way to reduce the dependency on SE while retaining sin/hermit/NL class identity.

I think both these suggestions are good for staff to tinker with.
Disagree on making NLs benefit from SI though.

 

I personally didn't see NL as disproportionately strong, but it has a very good QoL, an example is this version of shadower that is strong and has an absurd QoL..
I understand the balance in terms of changing the QoL of the class, and not the damage itself, but maybe this much custom isn't such a good idea..

 

Multi-client is terrible for servers but there's no way they'll remove it. They explain why in this thread. I definitely don't agree with them personally but you can see what they have to say about it there.

 

if this is the case, then I don't see the reason why they would be trying to balance around multi-attacking (insert class here) problem since the root cause is still there. multi nl does too much dmg. whats stopping multi pally or multi whatever at some other bosses generating profit theres always methods like these popping up every year or so