Feedback Upcoming Shadower updates and plans

Agree with the general sentiment on smokescreen: as long as smokescreen is longer than the current version, we're good. 45s/6min sounds solid, but I'm not going to complain about going to 60s/10min either.

 

If you’re unsure about how to handle the Smoke Screen skill, how about making both its duration and cooldown increase as the skill level goes up?
For example, at level 1 it could have a 12-second duration with a 120-second cooldown, at level 20 a 40-second duration with a 6-minute cooldown, and at level 30 a 60-second duration with a 10-minute cooldown.
This way, players can choose the level that fits their playstyle.

 

Reduce the hp of hpc Shadowers so that they will also require hb as mandatory for end game bosses, just like other classes.

 

None of the other classes that needs HB is usually close enough to a boss to kiss it (and consequentially take touch dmg)

 

Not to be rude, but some people don't understand what it means to be job-ranged >.<

 

I’d like to ask why it is considered acceptable that Shadowers on HP Challenges are effectively the only class that no longer requires HB, especially for end game content. I genuinely do not understand why this discussion keeps shifting toward comparing melee versus ranged HP values. Yes, Shadowers are a melee class and are therefore more exposed to touch damage. However, that is not the point I’m trying to make.

My point is this: Ranged characters on HPC will still die to ranged attacks from bosses if they do not have HB. Meanwhile, Shadowers can survive both ranged attacks and touch damage without HB.

I generally dislike nerfs. However, if HPC Shadowers are able to tank both types of damage without HB, shouldn’t it be reasonable for ranged classes on HP Challenges to at least survive ranged attacks as well?

Additionally, would you be comfortable bringing an HPC Buccaneer to Pink Bean without HB? In my opinion, Buccs on HPC also still require HB, and they are more vulnerable to touch damage than almost any other class. And lastly, comparing Warrior HP to Shadower HP isn’t meaningful here, Warriors need very little washing to reach 30k HP, whereas washing a Shadower to high HP requires significantly more NX.

I genuinely do not understand why HPC Shadowers were designed this way from the start. Could a staff member also clarify what the original intention behind this design was? If I recall correctly, HPC Shadowers also received an additional HP bonus (around 1,000 HP) after when HP Challenges were introduced. What was the purpose of that change?

 

This is a really creative solution I’d never thought about before. Optionality is great.

Personally I think 12/120 is fantastic but the weakness is entirely in the smoke cast time.

 

I don't believe a sample from a single person is very useful, but the best bucc on the server has 24k hp..

I believe that shadower has a complexity when we think about tankness.The tank's identity itself has always been that of a tank, and although its POV is debatable, it still has issues such as meso cost, dispel..

Edit: Speaking of bucc, the nx used for a wash for 30k is very inexpensive compared to a wash for shad/ranged.

 

i dont think its fair to ignore the fact that you're much more susceptible to taking damage (especially bosses with huge touch damage) at melee range.

ranged classes stay safer at range, so need a party comp to support them in that way. that's the trade off, and even if one person doesnt think its fair, i think you can definitely see the design logic in that.

I think your argument has much more merit in asking why buccs, even after a buff and having t-rex arm length attacks in barrage, have such a low HPC hp value.

my shad had 12.5k before the compensation updates to losing passive shifter and avoid pushed it to 14.5k. 12.5k would still let me run any boss, albeit uncomfortably at pb cuz i would have to be at 100% hp at all times. I think HPC buccs should be at a similar amount theoretically, where they can just tank PB body if they have decent HP equips (pet/ephenia ring etc) and t10 ring (which i think is around where they are now).

 

-30s/4min smoke for same ratio as proposed but with more flexibility
-reduce active shifter duration and cooldown
-nerf stun cleanse into effectiveness on undodgeables
-give a mix of passive shifter and stance for a net nerf from pre-anni
-very brief iframes for assaulter
-no damage component and no target requirement for assaulter cast in dark sight
-reconsider letting us tank empowered core without HP gear or HB right at lvl180

 

Before we discuss Buccaneers, I think it’s important to clarify what is meant by 'the best Bucc on the server.' I also prefer not to base balance arguments on a single player, since individual examples rarely represent an entire class.

I understand that Shadowers benefit greatly from Meso Guard, and this is the main reason HPC Shadowers can participate in end game content without requiring Hyper Body. It is true that HPC Shads need to pay closer attention than fully washed Shads, especially during boss dispels, since their lower base HP puts them at higher risk. It is also true that Shadowers lose a significant amount of mesos through Meso Guard.

However, there is a major difference between a class that cannot run a boss without HB and a class that can. Even if HPC Shadowers use more potions or lose more mesos, they are still able to run content without needing HB at all. And ultimately, I believe HPC Shads participate in content because it is still profitable for them, whether through coins, mesos, or experience.

Regarding the Bucc example, I don’t think it’s productive to base the discussion on a single 'expert' player who happens to perform well without HB. While that individual may run end game content smoothly, not every Buccaneer is as skilled or as optimized. In reality, HPC Buccs still require HB for Pink Bean. This is just a rough estimate about HPC buccs, I believe they typically reach around 24k HP with gear, while PB’s touch damage is roughly 24.5k according to Nise’s guide.

So let me ask: if you were hosting a PB run and an HPC Bucc with average skill wanted to join, would you take them without HB?

Lastly, while it’s true that washing a Bucc to 30k HP costs far less NX than washing a Shad, this creates another inconsistency. Why is it that HPC Buccs still require HB, yet HPC Shadowers, who require far more NX to wash, do not? This is the imbalance I’m trying to understand.

 

Damage is also mitigated by total stats and defense, Nise’s guide is an estimate, PB touch is less than 24k for high level characters wearing actual gear (from what I calculated previously, will calculate the touch damage for my bucc later)

Edit: My bucc should take less than 23.8k damage

 

i think the easy answer if i were hosting a pb run is i would absolutely want any kind of bucc to join, because the TL utility is just that high.

I wouldnt want a 24k hp bucc any more or less than a 12.5k hp shadower, yet i still joined runs before at 12.5k hp. The reason shads are so comfortable in late game content (such as pb and auf) currently is moreso due to the 100% safe nate dash, which is going away. the extra 2k hp i get now is just slightly more comfort and not any sort of hp threshold i wouldnt be able to get otherwise.

so i think all HPC melee classes are at the point where they can just hit the hp threshold needed for all bosses (with shads getting a slight extra buffer, which isn't gamebreaking). and the delineation between that and ranged classes is pretty defensible imo.

 

can we buff meso guard duration to 3+ minutes

 

You don't have to look far to see this comparison in Pink Bean; just look at how many runs have failed because there wasn't a bucc who knew how to pin, or how often a run is scuffed if there isn't a bucc who knows what to do.

Bucc is a core job for most bosses, SI, TL, and in Pink Bean it's still necessary for the run to happen (if Bucc knows/is the pin).

And when I say 24k HP, I mean doing the bosses without HP why bucc with this hp would be hb reliant?

 

correct

 

The current version feels lacklustre the OG version felt like a luxury even though I enjoy the 60duration the CD is a huge turnoff the 45 sec duration seems better imho it doesn’t feel like you should ONLY smoke on emergency situations it feels the most flexible.

 

Also please make the assassinate hitmarkers the same color as the attack animation so they can be distinguished from basic attack hitmarkers.

 

45s/6min seems best, currently it generally doesn't feel worth the DPS loss to take the time to get in position and cast it for such a short time.
CDR on smoke from assassinate last hit sounds fun, buff active shads without enabling multishad infinite smoke

 

45sec/6min + active shifter remove will Nuke HPC shad Auf but seems no1care Wash2Win nothing new

that a nice mech to reward active shads and nerf the multi ones