Update washing to encourage new players and existing players

kimmy already mentioned about 3. on other threads, so not likely to be patched, but i agree on other suggestions

 

In my opinion, the challenges fulfill their purpose well, we have to see what else is implemented on the server (medal, belt, potion that gives temporary HP like in the last event)The idea of the challenge is to do all types of game content, not in an optimized way, if everyone was supposed to have maximum HP on every character it would be better to be a high rate private player then

 

we're always going to be asking for more so why not start at 30k lv1? there will be no goalposts to be moved because everyone starts at the finish line

 

I wish newcomers don't approach this game as something 'competitive' too much, and OGs who started years ago are 'someone I need to catch up within 2~3 months', and ask 'easier path than they suffered' covering it with term 'fairness'.

Fairness doesn't mean everyone should be on same state, regardless of time/effort they poured. If we apply term 'fairness' in such way, It'll eventually roll into fartsy s idea 'why not 30k HP with lv.1 for everyone?'. Fairness is, what respects effort/time, and this game isn't even something you need to see like 'beat, or beaten'.

Why not mw30 from lv.1? It encourages newcomers
What about starting with lv.200? It encourages newcomers too

Trust me. whoever suffered in 'ages we don't even have HPC' know how miserable our lives were.



'Give us more, more, this is newcomer-friendly suggestion so this should be applied' sounds sweet and nice, but sometimes it rolls into 'give us everything in free, or, almost in free' doesn't sound that great for me. Sorry for playing devils advocate, but current newcomers ML life is already far more greater than 'OG veterans' had when they started years ago.



Edit/added - If any update happens 'makes newcomers life harder than OGs had', in way of kicking ladders, I'd be heavily against of it. But also if any update happens in way of 'spooning newcomers like a baby' making older players effort/time into nonsense too much, that also feels awkward for me. I actually really loved and agreed on concept of HPC when it was on blueprint stage, and started to come out, but if its limit was '30k for all, why not', I'd be against of it.

Encouraging doesn't equal with spoonfeeding imo.

btw, fastest player made 30k ranged class from 0-bases I've witnessed was within an year, thanks for his crazy nx farming + event farming + devoted playing.
He got permabanned after passing mw30 tho, for misbehaving kekw

 

I feel like the health pools are already really generous. I don't really care if HP challenge players have more HP or not but I worry more about the leech market. The economy in ML right now is quite bad, and I'm not so sure this is the type of shakeup that it needs.

 

Devaluing the effort and time that people put into a game in the name of fairness, while coming from a good place, is not something i agree with. Currently, hp challenges give enough hp to do end game content while not providing the luxury of 30k that some players have waited years for. Having something to strive towards, however arbitrary it may be, is part of the fun. I know someone who is washing an nl to 30k hp/30k mp. For what reason? Because he can. People have different goals and start times and end times, and devaluing the years of time that some people have put in just so new players can have a max hp they dont even necessarily need when could get through hp challenges seems more unfair to older players than how unfair the current hp challenges might appear to new players.

 

HP Challenges are amazing solution for players like me, who arent QUITE invested into their characters to vote for 2 years or whatever before they have a functioning attacker.
Especially now after for my bucc the threshold got buffed it feels really nice and i didnt ran into situation of "oh i literally cant run this content due to arbitrary hp requirement"

BUT:
I would like if i could slowly work towards natural 30k without HB, considering as bucc the attack range is atrocious when you need to build bubble.
At level 200 i think bucc would finish up around 26k ~~ hp with pet equips medals and whatnot.
I know people generally are REALLY against daily and weekly rewards, but i think it would be nice if High level players were rewarded in some sort for participating in party quests and what not.

I will be told to just create another account and remake "perfect" character by people here, but idk how people think its fun in making another second same character, except this time around you will leech it from level 10 to 120 instead of actually playing it like your first character.

How about some system that allows you to gain more HP on rosa charm if you do PQ's and stuff on characters on same account? to stimulate server playerbase while also rewarding your "main"

 

While i do agree that things shouldnt be given freely, i also do think that argument of "Well, cavemen didnt have access to supermarkets and had to go kill a mammoth and lose 5 tribemembers in the process to eat food, so you should too in current day" isnt exactly healthy.

Things like HP challenges got implemented because they want to make the gameplay accessible for people who have less time, i dont think you want a server only for HARDCORE people that never gets new players, and goes to 50 concurrent online players?

 

Its not about denying new players good changes, but about ensuring the achievements of older players are not trivialized. A sudden, much easier route to max hp can change the value of past investments and the competitive environment. If new systems are added, what happens to the players who are still in the middle of washing, have 400 base int and need another 1-3mil nx to even wash out? Is it sucks-to-suck for them, or would they be granted retroactive compensation in the form of massive amounts of nx?
Its not exactly like anesthesia, giving max hp to all isnt a medical breakthrough that wasnt previously known, its a design shift that changes balance, devalues past effort, and can force future content to scale around it if everyone is assumed to have max hp, further increasing boss dmg potentially and other meta changes. Its more like a marathon where halfway through some runners are allowed to start biking. You want to try and make sure the race is fair to all.

Im not necessarily opposed to finding other ways to increase hp, but it needs to be done in a way that doesnt devalue past achievements and invested time and leave people who are currently washing behind

 

Yes, Opinions for 'how far we should push, to make server friendly for newcomers' varies on each players minds.
That's why I welcomed HPC so hard. I really disliked myself telling newcomers didn't wash in my daily HT hosting days, 'hey you're fucked up, remake, and spend hundreds of hours and years for voting + climbing again, to join my HT run, or gtfo, I suffered that, you should do same'. Because HPC gave them enough HP to access any contents with resonable conditions (in my opinions), I was able to 'be friendly' on those newcomers and I really loved it.

Being gatekept for content itself was so ridiculous. Nobody thought it's something right.

And also loved that it allowed me to say all the shameless heavy inted guys with joke dpm still asking leech + even splits 'gtfo, there's HPC and it's your greed, for picking washing path'

But allowing everyone accessing on '30k' is completely different issue for myself, because I see 30k as something in zone of 'greed and luxury, not necessarity'. I do have non-30k char aswell, HPC chars aswell. Used to run PB with my 15k shad and 20k BM without HB mostly (this is HB with HPC), wasn't that bad.

As I claimed over and over, I'm welcomed for anything makes newcomers life easier in resonable level, so they can play with us eventually, but 'everyone should be able to hit 30k in free' 'i feel salt for not being 30k, when he's 30k' 'more nx' 'easier nx' seems crossing the line.



edit/added : maybe opinion varies on how we see 30k - is it necessary? or greed/luxury? my stance on this is clearly 'not necessary at all, it's just luxury/greed', especially on ranged chars. I do think, HPC is enough. even it is luxury, for certain classes.

Let me ask you back. would you love to play in server, where your time/effort aren't respected?

I see 'getting supermarket buying milk and bread' as 'attending contents with resonable gameplay without vote insanity = HPC', and 'getting caviar sandwich with lobster' as 'reaching 30k hp in exchange of cancerous months~years voting and event/nx farming'. They're having caviar sandwich with lobster, because they paid the price.

 

You bring very fair points, but honestly? I dont really care if i grind for x amount of hours and someone gets it way later in easier way.

But what I do want is inclusion of playerbase to best of devs abilities
Maybe this can be totally just adjusted on case by case basis, for example by changing values of damage on certain attacks from some bosses or whatever.
And yeah i do think Maplers have kind of obsession with magical 30k number (and some mages way higher than that, including HP) and its probably not needed to clear most, if not all of the game content.
But at same time for us buccaneers the recent buff was REALLY helpfull.

And i dont think players here ask for "oh just let us get something for free that HP washers had to work hard for"

It can be totally something VERY long term, like on a weekly lockout basis, so obtaining the missing 3-4k hp takes a year or more to get.
Thats mostly for players that enjoy and play one character, like me.

Or you know, provide us with something similar to monster book ring, and ellin ring, that we can work on And slowly upgrade based on some content (preferably party content to not encourage a*tistic grind) like adventurer medal, that each week based on some requirements you can icnrease by 20hp or so

52 weeks - 1040hp
SO obviosuly hp washing would still be best way

 

Exactly, new players time and effort should be respected too. If they’re actively participating in events, why are they earning fewer APRs than older players did from past events?

 

Than we'll see another suggestion like OPs - 'this is too hard and ridiculous, make it easier'. Unfortunately, that's what I've seen for years, and what i'm seeing now again.

Maybe that's our natural habit hehe

Something will be accepted if can get agreement from community (like how we got HPC!), something will be rejected because can't get agreement from most of community. (just like this..? we'll see how it goes.) Let's see how others think, I think I told enough for how I think, in personal.

 

Could be a challenge like kill 100 zaks= 1k extra hp, 200 paps=1k hp, 100 krex=1k hp, 100 ht runs= 4k hp, but it needs to be something that is actually challenging and takes time investment. And i dont think the challenges should ever grant 30k. Ranged attackers really only need around 16-17k to compete in all endgame content

 

I agree with Rosa charm upgrade, or even a direct HP upgrade NX consumable item. Maybe 10k NX for 10hp or MP increase? Would be way more NX cost to 30k a character (more than double) but still achievable. This maintains a benefit for HP washing (30k much sooner) without forcing people to restart a 18X or higher just to "fix" their HP. Maybe a separate item for mages that gives them 5hp per 10k NX and caps at 10k HP (before equips) or something, so 30k hp mages don't become a thing, and beginner washed mages can't abuse it for even more HP