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Washing & AP Reset Requirements

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pepper, Jun 28, 2021.

  1. Pepper
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    Pepper Wolfspider

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    Introduction

    It was recently brought up on another thread "What is the player base's expectations for how many AP Resets are 'reasonable' for an event?" I decided to mathematically look into this because it is an interesting question. Please note the data provided in this thread is based off math more-so than my personal preferences.

    Please note: Mage is not included in this break-down as generally MP washing is quality of life unless you are doing PB in which case you need both HP/MP washing. Magic Guard is complicated for numbers and I was too lazy :3 Don't get dispelled!!

    Also, PB is being treated as Lv 185. All numbers listed are approximated and rounded for easier math and whatnots :3~

    HP Threshholds
    Based on: https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/important-hp-thresholds.31698/


    These are the lowest amounts to survive with HB.

    Horntail (Non-Tail/Legs)
    • Base: 4,400 HP
    • HB: 7,000 HP
    Horntail (Tail/Legs, non-buffed)
    • Base: 6,000 HP
    • HB: 9,500 HP
    Horntail (Buffed Legs)
    • Base: 8,500 HP
    • HB: 13,600 HP
    Vergamot
    • Base: 8,500 HP
    • HB: 13,500 HP
    Dunas
    • Base: 5,700 HP
    • HB: 9,000 HP
    Toad
    • Base: 9,200 HP
    • HB: 14,600 HP
    Pink Bean
    • Base (non-touch): 11,500 HP
    • Base (touch): 15,000 HP
    • HB (non-touch): 18,400 HP
    • HB (touch): 24,000 HP

    Class Breakdowns
    The HP's were determined utilizing Nise's formulas: https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/nises-hp-washing-formula-compilation.38558/

    Warrior
    • Lv 155 - Non-washed HP: 9,800 HP
      • HT (non-legs/tail): Can survive without HB
      • HT(legs/tail): Can survive without HB
      • HT (buffed legs): Requires HB or 2,800 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 163 - Non-washed HP: 10,300 HP
      • Verga: Can survive with HB
      • Verga: Without HB, 2,200 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 169 - Non-washed HP: 10,700 HP
      • Dunas: Can survive without HB.
    • Lv 175 - Non-washed HP: 11,100 HP
      • Toad: Can survive with HB.
      • Toad: Without HB, 2,500 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 185 - Non-washed HP: 11,800 HP
      • PB: Can survive with HB except touch.
      • PB: Without HB (no touch), 6,000 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Touch with HB, 2,200 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Touch without HB, 11,200 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.

    Archers & Night Lords
    • Lv 155 - Non-washed HP: 3,800 HP
      • HT (non-legs/tail): With T10 Monster Book Ring and HB, you can barely survive.
      • HT (non-legs/tail): Without HB, 2,200 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • HT (legs/tail): With HB, 1,200 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • HT (legs/tail): Without HB, 4,700 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • HT (Legs Buffed): With HB, 3,700 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • HT (Legs Buffed): Without HB, 8,800 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 163 - Non-washed HP: 4,000 HP
      • Verga: With HB, 3,500 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • Verga: Without HB, 8,500 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 169 - Non-washed HP: 4,100 HP
      • Dunas: With HB, T10 Monster Book Ring, and some HP gear you can barely survive.
      • Dunas: Without HB, 3,900 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 175 - Non-washed HP: 4,300 HP
      • Toad: With HB, 4,000 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • Toad: Without HB, 9,400 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 185 - Non-washed HP: 4,500 HP
      • PB: With HB, 6,000 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Without HB, 12,900 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Touch with HB, 9,500 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Touch without HB, 18,500 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.

    Shadower
    • Lv 155 - Non-washed HP: 3,800 HP
      • HT: With HB, MG and T10 Monster Book Ring, can survive all damage without washing.
      • HT (tail/legs): Without HB but with MG and T10 Monster Book Ring, can survive.
      • HT (buffed legs): Without HB but with MG, 3,900 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 163 - Non-washed HP: 4,000 HP
      • Verga: With HB, MG and T10 Monster Book Ring, can survive without washing.
      • Verga: Without HB, 3,500 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 169 - Non-washed HP: 4,100 HP
      • Dunas: Can survive with MG and T10 Monster Book Ring. HB not required.
    • Lv 175 - Non-washed HP: 4,300 HP
      • Toad: With HB, MG and T10 Monster Book Ring, can survive without washing.
      • Toad: Without HB, 4,000 HP and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 185 - Non-washed HP: 4,500 HP
      • PB: With HB and MG, 500 HP washed (or gears) and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Without HB, 7,400 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Touch with HB, 4,000 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Touch without HB, 13,000 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.

    Corsair
    • Lv 155 - Non-washed HP: 4,100 HP
      • HT (non-legs/tail): With HB and T10 Monster Book Ring, can survive without washing.
      • HT (non-legs/tail): Without HB, 1,900 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • HT (legs/tail): With HB, 900 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • HT (legs/tail): Without HP, 4,400 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • HT (legs buffed): With HB, 3,400 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • HT (legs buffed): Without HB, 8,500 HP and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 163 - Non-washed HP: 4,300 HP
      • Verga: With HB, 3,200 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • Verga: Without HB, 8,200 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 169 - Non-washed HP: 4,500 HP
      • Dunas: With HB, T10 Monster Book Ring, and some HP gear you can survive without washing.
      • Dunas: Without HB, 3,500 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 175 - Non-washed HP: 4,600 HP
      • Toad: With HB, 3,600 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • Toad: Without HB, 9,000 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 185 - Non-washed HP: 4,900 HP
      • PB: With HB, 5,600 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Without HB, 12,500 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Touch with HB, 9,100 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Touch without HB, 18,100 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    Buccaneer
    • Lv 155 - Non-washed HP: 7,800 HP
      • HT: With HB, can survive all damage without washing.
      • HT (non-tail/legs): Without HB, you can survive.
      • HT (legs/tail): Without HB, 700 HP washed/geared and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • HT (buffed legs): Without HB, 4,800 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 163 - Non-washed HP: 8,200 HP
      • Verga: With HB and T10 Monster Book Ring, can survive without washing.
      • Verga: Without HB, 4,300 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 169 - Non-washed HP: 8,600 HP
      • Dunas: With T10 Monster Book Ring, can survive without HB and without washing.
    • Lv 175 - Non-washed HP: 8,900 HP
      • Toad: With HB and T10 Monster Book Ring, can survive without washing.
      • Toad: Without HB, 4,700 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
    • Lv 185 - Non-washed HP: 9,400 HP
      • PB: With HB, 1,000 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Without HB, 7,900 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Touch with HB, 4,500 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.
      • PB: Touch without HB, 13,500 HP washed and T10 Monster Book Ring.

    AP Reset Breakdown
    DISCLAIMER: This is just for HP washing resets and does not include resets required for resetting int after washing is completed.

    Warrior
    Estimated cost: 50~216 resets (155,000~669,600 NX or 24 days to 104 days with max vote streak)
    • They can get by in most situations with minimal washing. No washing is required for many bosses, with approximately 50 resets required in some situations: horntail buffed legs with no HB, verga with no HB, toad with no HB, and PB touch with HB. With PB, without HB, you are looking at 216 resets for touch damage. This does not include other requirements such as dark knights low hp requirements for DPS.
    Archers & Night Lords
    Estimated Cost: 225~1030 resets (697,500~3,193,000 NX or 108 days to 492 days with max vote streak)
    • With HB, and excluding PB, they can get by on around 225 resets. Without HB, this goes up to 530 resets. For PB, this ranges from 340 with HB to 720 resets without HB non touch damage. With touch damage this goes up to 540 resets with HB to 1030 resets without HB.
    Shadower
    Estimated Cost: 220~723 resets (682,000~2,241,300 NX or 105 days to 345 days with max vote streak)
    • Generally shadowers require very little washing thanks to mesos guard. You do have to worry about dispells for bosses. In some situations it requires up to 220 resets: horntail buffed legs no HB, verga no HB, toad no HB. For PB, with HB and no touch 28 resets but without HB 412. With touch on PB, with HB 223 and without HB 723.

    Corsair
    Estimated Cost: 200~1006 resets (620,000~3,118,600 NX or 96 days to 480 days of voting with max vote streak.)
    • Corsairs are in the same boat as archers and night lords. The numbers are slightly different but generally the same situation. Excluding PB, you will need between 200 to 500 resets. With PB, HB and no touch is 200 resets to 700 resets no touch without HB. With touch and HB, 506 resets and without HB 1006 resets.

    Buccaneer
    Estimated Cost: 120~356 resets (372,000~1,103,600 NX or 58 days to 170 days of voting with max vote streak.)
    • These are similar to warriors but not quite as easy. Excluding PB, they can get by on 130 resets, and require no washing for some situations. For PB no touch with HB, you only need about 27 resets and 208 with no HB. For touch with HB, 120 resets and 356 without HB.

    Events & Why APR's are important

    Events usually give us some options for obtaining AP Resets. Based on my (limited) experience, there are generally 5 events per year: Valentine's Day, Anniversary, Summer, Halloween, and Christmas.

    At this point we are kind of getting into my personal opinion here.

    1. HP washing is NOT optional if you want to experience all forms of content.
    Bossing is not for everyone and there are a lot of players who never reach end-game content. But for those who have goals to reach end-game content, saying you won't ever need to wash is unrealistic. If you want to PB you are probably going to have to wash. Depending on class, a lot of the other bosses will require it too.​
    2. New characters can be made at any time.
    Regardless of the time of the year, someone can decide they do not like the class they are playing or they want to start a new one. I personally don't think it is healthy that you have to invest into voting for NX on an alternate account if you ever want to make a viable end-game character in the future. My personal opinion is that events should offer a reasonable way to obtain AP Resets so you can reach your goals of end-game content if you decide you want to play another character.​
    3. End-game player base keeps the server alive.
    This server would be dead without the player base and having people interested in end-game content keeps the game alive. Also, what is the point of working so hard to make these bosses challenging and fun and balancing them out if you don't want anyone to reach those goals? Blocking methods of easier AP reset obtaining is more of a discouragement from playing the game than it is to promote it.​
    4. Players still need to wash out their stats on top of the HP washing listed above.
    Remember that the amounts listed above DO NOT INCLUDE resetting int. Int is required to get to some of these HP levels just to experience the content. A lot of characters are non-playable for a good section of time because of high int values. A lot of ranged classes are looking at another 120~200 resets on top of their original amount (58 to 96 days) just to reset that int back out.​
    5. Some higher-end washing also requires MP washing to reach your goal.
    Mages were not included in this breakdown but they specifically will have to eventually MP wash and HP wash to do PB. Some higher range HP's for archers and thieves will also require MP washing to reach those goals. This just adds to the amount of AP resets that will be needed in the end.​
    6. Some players want to wash a little more.
    Although it isn't required, some people do want to do more HP. I don't think they should be punished for wanting to invest in their character. I understand there are balance requirements for making things too easy or "too sweaty". Some people have slower reaction times to things like debuff and want HP to survive without MG, or make a class that can survive without having to rely on HB. Wanting to make a solid character should not be seen as such a negative thing.​
    7. AP resets go quickly in the first 120 levels and then slow down after that.
    Another thing to consider is that getting to 120 doesn't take that long. Even getting to 155 can be pretty quick. Getting to PB level can take quite a while and you will have down time to continue to vote and gather NX. The issue is that its a build from the ground up experience to meet a lot of these HP goals.
    In summary, there is no exact number of AP resets that can be given in an event that will be the correct amount to everyone. Everyone is washing a different character for a different reason to a different number and has a different amount of time to work with. That being said, with the current year (2021) the Valentine's event offered no method to obtain AP Resets. The Anniversary event offered a maximum of 60 resets if you only buy the 5 reset bundles at 160 each. Christmas event ended January 19th, and the Anniversary event didn't start until June 9th (due to maintenance). So for 5 months of time this event allotted 28 days of voting. I can't say if this is enough or not, as it also depends on what the future events provide and how much time takes place between them as well. I just hope these statistics put more into perspective what the washing player base is going through and why AP resets are often the most sought after item each event. I also hope this data is some use to someone. Thank you for reading <3~
     
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  2. porl
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    porl Mixed Golem

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    Thank you for getting my sentiments across exactly as I was trying to say. This post connected with me on a human level.

    With so long between good APR farming events, it feels like pulling the rug under me as I was cusping having a playable character without loads of int. I had a lot of hopes for the current event in terms of character progress
     
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  3. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Resets from events are a slippery slope, and I'm glad I dont have to make that decision. Unfortunately no amount of event resets will ever be enough. By giving more resets and by allowing things like multivote, higher hp thresholds become normalized, further increasing the demand for more event resets. If anything, washing is arguably harder for a new player now because the goalpost is shifting to ever higher averages of hp. Sure, some of this can be attributed to release of new content like PB, but a fairly significant component of washing is done with the intent of surviving in ways unintended for a ranged character to survive or removing hb from squad planning without regard for hp gears at the cost of damage.

    Personally, I think theres a bit of disconnect among the community between how much HP is needed/deserved of a functioning endgame character. Is a night lord supposed to do ht without hb or any other equips for hp at 155? Is that same night lord expected to simply tank leg/tail that would normally kill them without washing or require a different approach to fighting the boss (such as fighting up top and not jumping into buffed wings)? We all know what the "optimal" answer is, and the answer established by the metagame, but is the balance supposed to cater to simply tanking everything in the game? Next thing you know, you'll have ranged characters complaining about being unable to fight toad without washing while warriors have literally no way to fight The Boss without sacrificing all gear for accuracy (oh wait...).

    Even for Pink Bean, what is the needed/deserved hp of classes? With proper control/placement (and admittedly a bit of luck with jank aggro mechanics), the "required" hp is lower then what anybody will tell you. Players with low hp have fought and slain the bean, but it requires them to be more focused and respect the mechanics of the fight. Are characters supposed to/are designed to tank all attacks with no counter play in the fight? Normalizing that hp will only make people look to the next targets, such as removing HB or tanking bean touch damage. In fact, it's already happening.

    Between less washed characters having to play the game and/or swap off full damage gears, its little wonder that the super washed characters will have more dpm, an easier time, and even a cheaper run in potions. Funny enough, the gained dpm from ranged character washing would probably bridge much of the gap in damage between ranged classes and melee classes in bean. The reality is you dont see many squads bringing heroes/paladins these days, and why would you when theres an NL with just as much hp and lots more damage?

    I'll play devil's advocate here and say that the listed values needed to tank are not necessarily the values needed to do the content in most cases, but rather the values to do content optimally. I dont claim "wash optional" because it isnt, but simply listing damage values doesnt answer the question of how much hp a player can do content with (and thus how many resets should be handed out in events), unless we intend to fully embrace the brain-dead "ranged warrior" meta, fully removing one of the biggest benefits of an entire set of classes.

    Tl;dr at any number of event resets given, the average HP of the playerbase goes up, widening the gap between new/unwashed players as well as the gap between melee and ranged character capabilities. As the gap increases, the fix is inevitably giving out even more resets the next event. "Enough HP is never enough".
     
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  4. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    I think another reason why the goalpost has shifted is because no one wants to be meme'd on and humiliated for their HP like LiquidOozeLiquidOoze
     
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  5. Feeed
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    Feeed Mr. Anchor

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    Great writeup :)

    I think a huge part of the problem is that past events have set an expectation that there will be a period of time where you'll be able to grind out a ton of resets. When that doesn't happen, people complain. Two really good examples of this are Valentine's 2021 as you pointed out (where resets were not even a thing) and Halloween 2020 (where resets were farmable, but at a much worse rate than Summer 2020, the event prior). While I love farming easy resets, there's objectively a few problems with the "traditional" event style- namely, they aren't really inclusive to new/casual players and that rest of the playerbase ends up getting burnt out after hours upon hours of grinding and sweating.

    From what I understand, old events were more useful than they were fun, and it seems like staff is taking that into consideration by addressing the issue with how newer events are structured. I don't want to speak for anyone but I can't imagine that any of them wants us to grind the everloving shit out of what's supposed to be a festive excuse to log on more often. However, it's impossible to provide that kind of a vibe when the ecosystem provides a HUGE incentive to go absolutely ham.

    I completely understand that getting NX and washing is rightfully seen a huge pain point, but we really need to stop expecting events to be what ends up cutting down on months of washing time. I think the players are clamoring for some kind of solution to address that- but in the mean time, we need to stop treating events as designated blocks of time where AP Resets rain down on us. That gives staff absolutely no flexibility in how they structure them, and quite honestly acting as though one is owed anything is an extremely entitled stance to take.

    tl;dr imo this is an HP Washing problem, not an event problem. Expecting resets to be the main output of an event seriously undermines all the hard work that's put into these things.
     
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  6. porl
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    porl Mixed Golem

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    Deciding to explicitly farm for APR vs engage in the rest of the event content is a fully voluntary choice. People who decide to farm for APR are choosing to not do event content, and vice versa. I still don't see what the problem is.
     
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  7. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    Problem is when the event becomes just a grindfest with nothing to provide for casuals who want something new to break away from grinding.

    Just look at christmas 2020 for example.
    No Frosty Snowman? Really? Deciding to take out the most iconic moment of an xmas event, alright thats fine, I'll force myself to close my eyes and move on.

    No Snowman PQ? what? so what is there to offer? Just xmas points and present wrappers. Really?
    So in other to participate event content, I must grind monsters which I've already been doing for the last who-knows-how-many months, with nothing new to look forward to, other than having afew rewards such as AP Resets, cosmetics and pets, and maybe some raffles.

    Then if you allow both to happen without the cap, now people are getting too much resets and they wash too fast with little effort. Its hard to pull off a nice event without stepping into a HP washing problem
     
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  8. porl
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    porl Mixed Golem

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    I've never seen an event which only has APR farming content, where do I join these events?
     
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  9. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    I said farming-only events, not APR farming-only events. And if you are wondering, its xmas 2020

    At this point I don't even know whats yr intentions. Are u here for AP resets? Or are u closing your doors to every other options (bossing, PQ, PBPQ, puff daddy) and only wants to hit HHG for AP resets
     
  10. porl
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    porl Mixed Golem

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    Farming events are still better than no event. I want both APR farming and other event options. I just need APR more than the other content, which again, is why when given the choice I do APR related things more. If the other content was more rewarding than the APR farming then I would do that instead. People in no way should be denied other event content because people like me want extra AP resets.

    If you know what is happening in the Xmas 2021 patch can you pm me the details so I can brag about my perfect bingo card in 6 months?
     
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  11. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    I can probably summarize xmas 2020 event here very easily.

    1. Main currency - xmas points. It works like anniversary points. Grinding solo points has no limits, while grinding party points has a limit of 50 a day. Used for AP resets and cosmetics -> no raffles

    2. Lvl 30-70 has the kerning cafe opened up, with an additional currency (called mouse i think, im not sure). If u grind here, u can collect mouse, which can be used to buy some pots. I may be wrong here coz I didnt participate this portion of the event.

    3. 70+ Can do raffles. U take a quest and hunt mobs of +/- 20 lvls from you. Collect 100 of them (about 15-30 min, depends on where u hunt them) and you will be forced to raffle once quest completes. Raffles includes xmas exclusives (socks, rudolph hat, warm muffler, and chairs, and ofc the capes and ws/cs). I took part raffles daily and no ws/cs, only a 2wa gaia cape.

    In this event, im only able to buy face/hair sets + 2 full nx set + 1 pet, despite grinding for points daily via raffles.

    now translate my purchases into AP reset, (80+25+25+75=205), thats only one reset.

    Well thats obviously a super bad comparision coz I dont rmb purchasing values on xmas 2021, but u may dug up old event post and find the cost of those items
     
  12. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Hmmmm... I think some of the numbers are a bit off here, a little low I think.

    If you check the second post, there's details numbers for what you need based on the actual stats:
    https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...ashing-formula-compilation.38558/#post-257523

    Pink Bean's Ranged Attack Maximum
    PB Big Bang (ranged attack) is 19,245 dmg max, which deviates from the 11.5k * 1.6 (hb) = 18,400 total hp mentioned in this post. Also important to note is that the damage can be mitigated by W.Def, which makes the number a bit more varied.

    OP has Corsair Needing a Total of ( 4900 + 5600 + 1000 ) = 11,500 HP Needed for PB's Ranged Attack
    I run PB as a Corsair with around 11,700 base health but that's because I have just enough total W.Def to bring it down to that amount (using a Lvl 100 overall and HTP, totaling at 519 w.def). Without the extra w.def, lets say you're using a MoN, you'd actually end up needing like 200 more health. Pushing that number closer to 11,900 required base health before HB.

    Pink Bean's Touch Damage Maximum
    PB touch damage is like 24,670 dmg, which is a bit more than the 24,000 mentioned here. This is also mitigate-able by W.Def.

    OP has Shad Needing a Total of ( 4500 + 4000 + 1000 ) = 9,500 HP Needed for PB's Touch Damage
    A Lvl 200 Shad I did the math for recently can tank it with 11,989 (with HB buff), which translated to 7,493 clean hp (before HB & MG).
    Code:
    7,493 clean * 1.6 (hyper body) * 2 (meso guard) = 23,977.
    I haven't checked the numbers for the other sections, as I don't have them saved. But there seems to be some errors here and there :eek: Maybe because of the slightly off starting values of what the maximum damage is? :eek:
     
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    2020 xmas event.

    Staff don't need to make the event about resets. They can still have them obtainable without ruining the event for people who don't want or need them. It isn't an either or. If they can't do both they need more creative people lol. But I would argue summer 2020 was a good example of both.

    As far as high hp thresholds I can see it being an issue for different classes getting in parties but at the same time as someone who is not able to dodge everything I went the bigger hp route. I currently need 900 resets to my goal and events would help me bridge that gap, especially when gtop is so inconsistent at letting you vote.
     
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  14. OP
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    Pepper Wolfspider

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    If you read the whole post it says in the beginning paragraphs the numbers are approximated and rounded. They are not meant to be exact. If you want to be nitpicky please feel free to redo the math yourself. As a GM you're able to test this more easily than I can.
     
  15. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    oh my bad, its 2020. fixed it in an edit.

    i dont mind having resets in events, i just want the fact that grinding is not the only way to enjoy my time in events. but with the way currency works in anniversary, I think its really tough to preserve a balance.

    porl did emphasize heavily the need of farming APR without limits. he provided no numbers to what is an acceptable amount of APR per event however. with these limited standards, I've decide to propose a simple fix to current event currency system, which may be used for future events.

    Once again, have two currencies. Lets call them Coin A and Coin B.
    1. Coin A is a FARM-ONLY currency. Like xmas points & anniversary coin, you can solo grind mobs or party grind it. party grind has a limit, which i'll leave it up to staff for balancing. Solo grinding however, has no limits.
    2. Coin B is a NON-FARMABLE currency. Which is obtainable via PQ/Bosses, etc. Like current anniversary, there's a weekly cap to it, on how much you can have.
    3. Coin A may be converted to Coin B, but its still within the weekly cap. Meaning you can't break weekly cap with Coin A. Its idiotic for sweaty players but for casuals who doesn't care/ it can be a good thing. However, you cant convert Coin B to Coin A.

    So with these mechanics out of the way, what can I buy with both coins?
    Coin A -> APR, NX Cosmetics, Pets.
    Coin B -> Raffle, NX Cosmetics, Face + Hair, Pets

    This should justify the needs of APR requirement based on what porl has laid out -> which is to ensure unlmited APR farming. Whether the balancing ends up you can't get 60 resets per event or not - I have no idea. But this should imo, satisfy both camps for now.
     
  16. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    I saw the approximate & rounded part, but for people that might reference this post in the future to wash, I thought it was important to let them know that it wasn't just like a 1 or 2 wash off approximation. I still think this is great work ^^ But, it's a pretty significant gap (at least for sairs), which is why I mentioned it.

    For example, 400 hp for a sair is a lot more than because:
    • 400 hp / 18 hp gained per stale HP wash = 23 HP washes needed
    • 23 washes requires an extra 368 MP as well as 71,300 vote cash just for the HP > Stat process. Then, there's also associated costs with more base INT (& washing that out) as well as whether or not you decide to MP wash or not.
    As a pepega who ended up not washing as much & not MP washing because I thought I could achieve my goal without it (this was circa 2018), it's helpful to get the right number out there ^^

    Also, these numbers aren't done via GM testing :p These numbers are purely done from formulas mentioned in my formula compilation & hp washing posts
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Hiyo
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    Hiyo Headless Horseman Retired Staff

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    When having multiple currencies it can cause confusion, last year's anniversary event was pretty overloaded with content and 2 currencies and many ways to get them. Halloween 2018 had the candies and boxes, with the boxes giving u candy and kaleido ticket pieces, and u convert both candies and ticket pieces into kaleido tickets which were used to exchange for things, this felt too much as well. Having one currency makes things simple and elegant, not that having multiple currencies is bad, it just causes unnecessary confusion and things can look a little bit messy.

    As for the current event, you can get around 62 APR with just the points, not counting any from the NX drops (which most certainly aid in getting you more resets) which you can get around 1k+ NX an hour (so that leaves you at 2-3 hours for 1 reset through nx drops). There is also the golden gach tickets which may be rare but a third way that can assist you in getting APR. I genuinely believe the event is generous with APRs but not busted like xmas 2020 was which honestly shouldn't be held as a standard.
     
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  18. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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  19. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    Hmm thats true. Maybe there's another way around it, though I haven't been able to think of any yet so far.

    Personally didn't enjoy xmas 2020, but based on my imperfect memory, I do only recall the negative feedbacks (in the feedback thread) where surrounding the lack of xmas PQ & snowman, but was greatly praised by grinders who were happy that they didn't have to give up their leeching/grinding spots for frosty snowman. I probably missed out on APR-related feedbacks so you are probably right in that sense.
     
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  20. porl
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    porl Mixed Golem

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