Why HP washing sucks & suggestions

I'll repeat what I said in my journal to maybe simplify it for some people.

Note I started from 0, 0nx, 0 self leech, 0 help from my other chars, and I think I bought 2 or 3 leech levels

I started my character on February 7th of this year, and it currently looks like this
View attachment 69516

I already got this nx
View attachment 69517
In the anniversary year event you could get 40 APR per week, 200 in total (5 weeks) and in the summer 14 per week 42 in total (3 weeks), so, can cont 750k more nx

View attachment 69518
calculating my extra MP, you can see that I can gain 16632 hp
View attachment 69519
that is, I need a little less than 5k hp to achieve my goal (28750 clean, 30k w/ t10 and ellin)

 

move goalposts backward

 

I think one of the biggest problems with the HP challenge system is if a player wants to wash, but not wash to 30k there’s much less of a reason to do so.

“Why would you only wash to X? The challenge system gives almost that much now. Just do those instead.”

Back in the day players were recommended several thresholds to try and wash to by certain levels: 5k, 7.2k, 10k, 12k, to name a few. With HPC providing a “free” bump to these thresholds players who want to engage with washing at this point are pretty much told “Go to like, 20 or 30k. Anything less you should probably just do HPC.” It may only take a year or 2 of voting to MP wash and completely wash out of your INT, but you’ll still be looking at several hundred days of voting to get your HP.

Just let players wash and do HPC at the same time.

 

Not necessarily shooting your suggestion down, but I want to point out that if this were to happen, the goal posts would move yet again to 30k/30k projects.

 

As a player I enjoy the opportunity HPC provides for significantly less time/effort. That line more comes from the fact that the challenge HP is good enough to the point that washing to the same threshold requires a decent amount of time to do so and if you're going to wash to something slightly higher than challenges, why bother?

It pushes the floor of HP wash up significantly. I don't think it's a bad thing. It is mostly a point for conversation.

 

This is the same logic applied at every step.

 

I think that targeting new players this will only confuse them even more, since now in addition to the challenges they will have to wash, anyway, whether it's to level up with base int or do less mp wash or something like that, you can do something like me, soblet, regrets did (varying in less int or less mp wash)

 

I don’t think making the HPC rewards available to all players would be any more confusing than washing already is. Especially for new players. Rosas charm exists and provides the additional HP completely separated from the currently released tiers added to your base hp. Think of it as another monster ring.

The original complaint of this thread was “you’re telling me I can never get max hp because I want to do the hpc? Why shouldn’t HPC players be able to work towards it?” Mind you, I don’t think 30k is required, and the way that players like you, soblet and regrets played is a perfectly viable strategy. But your characters were built from an early level to reach your goal hp. It is always an option to carry lower INT for more levels to get the same MP. I stand by an earlier comment I made in the thread saying that the best way a player can get more hp is to work off of a specific build from the beginning. If a player is enough of a power gamer to know they want to do everything 100% correctly to the point they look up skill builds and what not, they’ll at least have some idea of what ho washing is. I think players are more likely to be confused by the fact that if they opt in they can no longer get higher hp than what the challenges provide. Before HPC existed if a player wanted more hp at a higher level on an existing character they could always reset AP out of main stat and into INT and start MP washing. While not an ideal solution, it was still an option.

My comment was about more experienced players saying that the only washing truly worth doing are the all or nothing goals, since HPC are generous enough. And I don’t think I’ve seen other posts about letting all players benefit from completing the HPC if they wanted to. FWIW I knew it would be an unpopular take on the forum.

 

like a "late wash" for hp challenge, got it now
I liked the idea, I don't know if washing itself would be a good idea, that needs to be discussed, but maybe something along those lines would work

 

oh damn i missed a 11 page discussion while i was busy irl.

Allowing people to HPC AND wash is certainly interesting not sure if i like it or dislike it. Perhaps it is less gimmicky than locking people out of washing entirely--ive had quite a few people get confused around the idea because they thought if they did even 1 wash they couldnt do HPC, etc. In some sense this would also be more fair for people that did low hp wash before challenges came out! But would this make getting 30khp pretty easy? I dont think most ppl will bother getting 30k mp unless they are BM or something. Marginal benefit of extra mp is pretty low compared to hp.

But in any case, I dont think this change should be made until all 8(?) HPC tiers are out, since at the moment its way too easy to reach max HPC hp since we only have to do 3 tiers.

 

The problem here is HPC + washing becomes extremely powerful and makes the entire process significantly easier. I think the suggestions of allowing players to dig themselves out of suboptimal standards is fine, but it was balanced with work.

HPC + current washing would still have the problem of current 200s being locked out of any type of fix.

 

desire is the root of all suffering