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Buff Timeless Hats?

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by shck, Mar 26, 2021.

  1. shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    Since Timeless Gloves and Shoes were buffed in the previous patch, why not give the hats a boost as well? These are currently worthless equips bc of overpowered helms (Zak, Scarga), but considering how they're supposed to be "endgame" boss drops, these hats should be made somewhat useful but not too overpowered such that Zak/Scarga becomes dead content.
    I got bored at 3am anyway, so I decided to compile some hat stats with reference to the following info(if any of the info provided below is inaccurate, you may ignore this post):
    bow.PNG pirate.PNG war.PNG mage.PNG thief.PNG
    All stats in the following snips are calculated assuming all slots are scrolled with 10% helm ACC, DEX or INT scrolls.
    Current perfect Timeless Hat stats:
    timeless current.PNG
    Perfect Scarga Helm stats:
    scarga.PNG
    So if my calculations are accurate, perfect timeless hat stats pales in comparison to Scarga helms by A LOT, and are in no way useful no matter how you look at it.
    These are some of the changes I came up with regarding Timeless hat clean stats/level up stat gains.
    NOTE: These changes are made with the following idea in mind; if your character has enough secondary stats to equip a Timeless hat WITHOUT using a Zak/Scarga helm, you shouldn't require anymore secondary to equip anything at all.

    General Change: Increase upgrade slots from 7 -> 8.
    Timeless Fennel (Warrior):
    Clean Stats:
    STR 7(6-8) -> STR 10(8-12)
    Accuacy 0 -> Accuracy 15 (10-20)
    Level up stats gain changes:
    Increases STR between a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3.
    Increases DEX between a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3.
    Increases Accuracy a minimum of 0 and a maximum of 5.
    Explanation: Warriors do not require any secondary stat to wear Timeless hat, but they have always struggled with accuracy issues. These changes would make it easier for warriors to get more accuracy in the later game while also giving them a small boost from the additional STR.

    Timeless Rapido (Bowman):
    Clean Stats:
    STR 3(2-4) -> STR 10(8-12)
    DEX 7(6-8) -> DEX 10(8-12)
    Level up stats gain changes:
    Increases STR between a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3.
    Increases DEX between a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3.
    Increases MaxHP between a minmum of 20 and a maximum of 50.
    Explanation: Like warriors, Bowmen do not require secondary stats to wear their Timeless hat, the one issue bowmen have faced would be getting enough STR to equip their weapons and for some players, insufficient HP. These changes would essentially give them a little bit more STR and HP to play around with.

    Timeless Coral (Magician):
    Clean Stats:
    INT 7(6-8) -> INT 10(8-12)
    LUK 5(4-6) -> LUK 7(6-8)
    Magic ATT 0 -> Magic ATT 3(1-5)
    Level up stats gain changes:
    Increases INT between a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3.
    Increases LUK between a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3.
    Explanation: With the reduction in LUK requirement to wear Timeless gear for magicians, it seems like the eventual plan would be moving magician mains in the direction of low LUK builds. With these changes, Timeless magician hat will have a slight edge over Targa(INT) as it would now have both Magic ATT and INT, making it an item with potential for using chaos scrolls on, to create higher TMA gear.

    Timeless Chive (Thief):
    Clean Stats:
    DEX 4(3-5) -> DEX 0
    LUK 6(5-7) -> LUK 18(16-20)
    Level up stats gain changes:
    Increases STR between a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3.
    Increases DEX between a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3.
    Increases LUK between a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3.
    Increases MaxHP between a minmum of 20 and a maximum of 50.
    Explanation: Thieves have the highest secondary stat requirement out of all classes to wear their Timeless hats. Therefore, they deserve the huge boost in main stat(LUK) if they're able to reach the 160DEX requirement without a Zak/Scar/Targa helm, this benefit is then offset by the lower secondary stats(STR/DEX) available. Also like bowmen, they have a lower HP pool thus giving them additional HP will certainly be helpful.

    Timeless Conrad Henkel (Pirate):
    Clean Stats:
    STR 6(5-7) -> STR 13(11-15)
    DEX 6(5-7) -> DEX 13(11-15)
    Level up stats gain changes:
    Increases STR between a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3.
    Increases DEX between a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3.
    Increases MaxHP between a minmum of 10 and a maximum of 30.
    Explanation: Pirates are by far the most straightforward stat distribution class when it comes to wearing equips. There isn't much that can be done for the class so it comes down to giving them slightly more main stat and HP gain.

    After the changes suggested above, perfectly leveled and scrolled Timeless hats will should look something like this:

    timeless buffed.PNG
    And perfect clean hats leveled averagely should look like this:
    timeless buffed avg.PNG

    Not 100% sure if the numbers are accurate but again, I was bored at 3am. Pls be kind with your replies f2
     
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  2. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    id prefer waiting for chaos zk/ NT PT2 helmet
     
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  3. jesscapades
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    jesscapades Pac Pinky

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    I don’t really see how the availability of timeless gear warrants a buff to helms. It’s always been that helms are trash, so it’s not clear to me why having timeless means that that has to change.

    I can understand the desire for certain items to not be useless, but personally I don’t have that desire and so the extra work in creating and balancing them doesn’t seem worth it to me. Especially given the chance that a change might be too OP then has to be reverted after, which just causes a lot of grief.

    Putting that aside, there are balance issues with the stats you’ve proposed. For bowmen and thieves, you would definitely not want to get a helm with secondary stat requirements, because you’d have to reset your primary stat into your secondary stat and then hope that the gain from the helm is worth it. Especially for thieves, who would have to reset up to 40 LUK into DEX, and then get the proposed helm and scroll for... DEX? Then with the timeless helm you would have more DEX than needed for equips, and for that to be worth it in terms of damage gain you’d need like 4x as much DEX to make up for the 40 LUK lost. So up to +160 DEX on the helm. Overall these stats favour other classes more and inadvertently make thieves, bowmen worse off.

    It just feels like a huge headache to balance unless you made the helms like scar helms 2.0 with 0 stat requirement.
     
  4. whatdatoast
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    whatdatoast Windraider

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    I feel like timeless helms should not be changed to be comparable to zhelm/scarga helm in main stats, but could serve to add utility to some classes in certain circumstances. I like your suggestion of extra accuracy for warriors and increased HP for ranged, but you could go even further.

    For pirates, this could mean a helm that gives a ton of avoid, at the expense of 20+ main stat, which is a tradeoff many already do with their shoes. For ranged, this could mean a helm that gives 500+ hp with good levelups, so they can use it only to meet minimum hp requirements (Toad, pb, NT). For warriors this could be a acc helm just so they can do certain bosses or grind 7F golds.

    It doesn't have to be better than zhelm in all circumstances, but would be nice to keep one around for certain scenarios.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Annolis
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    Annolis Skelegon

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    Okay...so... I've been railing for years that Zakum/Scar-Targa/Ravana Helmets should have been Rings or some other accessory. All helmets level 50+ are obsolete - have always been obsolete. The only way this gets fixed is if a new slot comes out that these boss helmets can be converted into and take up that slot - like a Pauldron slot or something. I've asked for some sort of Complete Set of Armor boost like they did in GMS well after Lion Heart Castle came out (Tangent: which I am extremely opposed to having come out here - that damn El Nath map with all those Dark Yeti and Pepe mobs everywhere just gives me the creeps /Tangent). Neckson made these boss helmets in order to get their player base to buy NX hats so you could use your F1 - F8 keys. Granted, you can still use the F keys with the Zakum Helm, but it's still an overwhelming piece of graphic to look at. But yeah...I knew this Timeless Helmet thing would catch fire all on its own.
     
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  6. OP
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    shck
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    shck Timer Retired Staff

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    Bowman Timeless hat, for some reason doesn't require any STR to wear, so they wouldn't need to AP reset anything, in fact the proposed would give them slightly more secondary stats to work around with as compared to zak/scarga helms.
    Thief hats were the trickiest of the bunch due to the fact that it has the highest secondary stat requirement to wear.
    Let's be honest here, Warrior and Bowman hats have 0 secondary stat requirement. Magician timeless set just got a secondary stat reduction to wear them and Pirates requirement are 120STR/DEX which is relatively easy to achieve.
    On to the scrolling part, I would've chosen a better way to scroll the helms if there was any other option(HP perhaps).
    Back to the Thief hats, logically speaking, no one would AP reset 40(?) more DEX just to wear a Timeless hat that has a highest of 33LUK(14 above Targa) potential because the math simply doesn't work at all. The general idea is that IF a player was to achieve 160DEX excluding whatever DEX they could get from helm, giving them an additional 14main stat(~3weapon att) and some HP boost wouldn't be too overpowered in comparison to scarga helms.
     
  7. jesscapades
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    jesscapades Pac Pinky

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    My bad, my argument is incorrect for bowmen then.

    I can't imagine any thief who could afford to make timeless gear would have 160 DEX without their helms. People min-max the shit out of their secondary stat and the helm is a huge part of that. My point isn't that they're overpowered. They would be underpowered, because every other class would get an option for improvement while thieves wouldn't have that choice cause no one is gonna have that much DEX.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2

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