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The current state of this server and its issues.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Autoassemble, Sep 13, 2015.

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  1. Autoassemble
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    Autoassemble Selkie Jr.

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    Let me begin this thread by saying that this is not a personal attack towards anyone in particular, but rather my thoughts on the issues that exist and my view on how they are handled.

    Since it is the most recent issue, I will use the recent horntail run as an example to explain my thoughts.
    First off, the issues that happened today at horntail should not have happened to begin with. This content was advertised as working and available (test run and multiple threads made weeks in advance with gm responses and no mention which would lead us to believe that it would not be available.)
    This lead to a large part of the higher levels of this server to put high amounts of time and effort into preparing for a common goal (killing HT).
    Now, I understand that the server has a very small staff and that they are doing this because they want to make a good server and I also realize that you guys are working as hard as you can to achieve this, BUT letting us live under the delusion that this content was available and working without having done proper testing is simply not acceptable.
    That being said, we get to the response. The fact that we had to wait a long time to actually get started due to these bugs is not even the biggest issue. The biggest issue is the response to what happens once we actually get started. The fact that two people gets disconnected almost instantly after HT spawns starts a chain reaction that leads to the death of other people and on top of that a few more disconnect. The response we get from this is that the original 2 people that disconnected gets warped back to a stage where they can effectively have no impact on the boss battle and are really just waiting to die, while the other effects that these dc's had are completely ignored and the rest of the team is refused to get warped back.

    I understand that your time is valuable, but so is ours and as a player that have invested considerable amounts of time and effort into organizing this event and the fact is that not only was this part of the game not functioning properly, but the response to above mentioned issues was plainly disrespectful towards the large amount of players that spent large amounts of their time preparing for it.

    I wanted to make this thread generally about the server and what I explained above is merely an example of what makes me feel like I have utterly wasted my time when playing on this server. If something is advertised as playable content, it needs to work properly and if it doesn't than the fault belongs entirely to the staff and owners of this server and they need to act accordingly to make up for their mistakes.
    The example I used above goes further than just this isolated event though. What I have seen throughout my 4-5 months of playing is continuous disrespect towards the players in the form of inadequate responses to faults that were present due to lack of testing or directly related to changes made by the staff.

    The way that I imagine that the server could be improved is that I feel like the staff needs to open up a bit and be more transparent about what is going on behind the scenes and allow the community to help in whatever way they can, because we really want to make this as good of a server as it can be.
    Issues like the ones mentioned above could be avoided if the community was asked to help test things before they were released as fully working content when in fact it wasn't.

    TL;DR
    The server is releasing unfinished and buggy content which leads to players spending large amounts of time working towards goals which is inherently impossible to achieve due to existing issues which are not disclosed ahead of time and I feel that it is disrespectful towards said players.
     
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  2. Aero
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    Aero Skelosaurus

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    You have been ridiculously fortunate by getting all these players so fast, don't waste it with this bullshit.

    We believe in you guys, just prove that you are able to back it up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2015
  3. Clairvoyant
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    Clairvoyant Mixed Golem Retired Staff

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    I would like to say that this was indeed a huge fault on our side and I honestly didn't know prior to this event that the horntail npc wasn't fixed. I'm really sorry about everything that happened today and although I tried to help, it ultimately didn't result in anything. I personally have no excuse for this behavior and on behalf of the staff, I want to admit that we really screwed up.

    I'm in agreement with you that what happened today was a huge sign of disrespect from us and I personally will work towards making this not happen again. I apologize for being incapable when you guys were in a time of need, but believe me, I tried to help to the best of my ability.

    On a better note, you should expect to see something nice in the very near future.
     
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  4. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    Yeah I think the whole situation is terrible.

    We definitely need the bugs looked into, and in addition to that, I think there will need to be some all-expense-paid test runs with HT just to make sure things are working as they should before it is officially released.

    edit: oh and one other thing: when a HT run is announced this much in advance, some staff with actual power to fix some major issues should try to be present at the designated time.
     
  5. SwordArt
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    SwordArt Windraider

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    <3 MapleF11
     
  6. Aero
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    Aero Skelosaurus

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    Thats great. Thanks for owning up and taking responsibility.


    p.s we've been expecting something nice in the near future, for a while now.
     
  7. Neko
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    Neko Wolfspider

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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    It was as frustrating for you guys as it was for us during that run. Trust me, seeing issues is obviously not something we laugh at. And every server has them, even at published content.

    Since I am responsible for the rewarp let me just explain that part. The reason why I've only re-warped the people that instant crashed after the spawning is simply because I am following my own policy, which is to no longer rewarp people during runs. If I broke this policy now it would mean further runs get "but x got re-warped last run, why can't I". I know the content was buggy, but it wasn't reason for me to break the policy.

    This is a part I wish to answer. I am using my sneak peak topic to answer it. Basically, my sneak peak topic was to show content we are working on. Unfortunately, its something I am no longer willing to do because there are other servers around that steal our content and ideas to use it for their server before ours is released. The new project I am currently working on now is something I won't reveal either before its done, simply because an other server may steal it and use it for their own benefits. This may sound like a really lame excuse, but it has happened, and it happened pretty bad; even our OCD image fixes has been used.

    Now to explain a bit about Horntail's whole issue. The reason this issue happened is because our script was updated for the revision update that happens really soon. Like we've mentioned before this revision is one of the biggest updates because a lot of coding and structures has been changed, this includes NPC's and scripts, thus also the Horntail script. What happened was is that the new structure for HT's script was on the live server while the old structured version was suppose to be by mistake, so the NPC became non-functional and it had to be fixed/changed quick. As you expect, when 30 people wait for a HT run its pretty stressful to quickly fix a script, so you try do this ASAP for the people. What happens than is that you make another mistake (such as typos), and thus it breaks again.

    We could also just say when you all were there "sorry but we have to close Horntail" but would that be better? Probably you would be as frustrated as you are now, and obviously we didn't expect it to go as wrong as it did now, but unfortunately it did.

    All I can say is we are sorry. We do not like what happened and we are extremely disappointed as a team.
     
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  9. Sam_Vosh
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    Sam_Vosh Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    I do not know the specifics about knowing the script and it's timings. But if you had said this the moment the thread of the new HT run was made. That it was actually not ready yet. Well, you could say our opinions would be very different.
     
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  10. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    The situation in my post was when you all were waiting at the NPC, not me telling its not ready in the topic days prior.
     
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  11. Sam_Vosh
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    Sam_Vosh Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    That is very true. It would hurt us the most if you would had said that at that point in time. But let me pose this; It required us to find out that it was not working. We had to test while you adamantly claimed as fixed.
     
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  12. Fruc
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    Fruc Horny Mushroom

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    That no re-warp policy seems to do more harm then good. I and others felt the "but x got re-warped" pretty hard. It was implemented 1 or 2 weeks before High attempted Zakum. That experience left a bad taste and that's why there's no motivation from me and maybe others to attempt Horntail.
     
  13. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Like mentioned in my post the script was tested but it was tested on our test servers, which is using a higher revision than the current live server, such as the new structures. The real mistake is that the live server is still using the old structures and this was forgotten about when Horntail was fixed to no longer allow re-enters on deaths.

    Anyway, we are sorry, and we hope this won't happen in future.

    EDIT:
    One last thing I want to add that client disconnects that happened after spawning had nothing to do with our server being buggy, but rather your client disconnecting because you are using NVIDIA and you didn't GFX before spawning Horntail. Your client got in a buggy state because of the active graphics during the pre-heads.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2015
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  14. OP
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    Autoassemble
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    Autoassemble Selkie Jr.

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    I will reply to this part first. This situation should not exist to begin with. As far as the live server goes, either the content is working in a way that the staff is happy with, or it is not accessible.
    If you are going to be making changes to the current system between the time that a run is publicly announced, and when it is executed then you either need to make those changes in a time frame that allows proper testing or simply state that the content is not ready.

    I believe I may have explained the quoted part for here wrong and you have replied in response to that, but what I meant was not for you to publicly announce upcoming (potentially unique) content in a way that put you in a vulnerable position which allows competition to steal your ideas. What I was trying to address here was the idea of letting the community test content when it is in a position that you are ready to release it, to ensure that it is working as it should. Horntail was only used as an example to explain the main thoughts and ideas behind my thread which I feel that you have yet to properly address.
     
  15. Aero
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    Aero Skelosaurus

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    I must say, these graphics are VERY active. Kappa

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. SwordArt
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    SwordArt Windraider

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    MapleF11 There should be a group of 6 players who test Bosses and Maps MapleF11

    pls give pally combat orders f4 everytime
     
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  17. Sucre
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    Sucre Zakum

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    I must admit, I am very disappointed with the events of today and the Staff team as a whole. However, people are human and make mistakes and I'm sure they have realized their mistake by now. All that is left to do is for them to work on their mistakes.
    NekoNeko 's image describes it pretty well.
     
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  18. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    Hmm... yeah... I don't understand the logic of updating any scripts on the live server when they depend on the next rev to function correctly and the next rev isn't out yet. On the test server? Yes, I'd 100% agree that is the correct thing to do, but on the live server it boggles me.
     
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  19. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    When you have to re-code every single Npc and script for the new structure (which is what Navi had to do) sometimes muscle memory as they call it lead to those mistakes.

    And yes, Navi did/had to recode every single script for the next rev.

    Please understand.
     
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  20. Latte
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    Latte Headless Horseman Retired Staff

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    I wasn't there so I'm not angry like those who we're, who obviously have the right to be angry. But mistakes were made, as unfortunate as it is and I know players and staff alike are disappointed. All we can do is continue to move forward and learn from our mistakes.
     
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