Is DK really trash ?

ryanlights · Jan 23, 2023

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Alyosha said: ↑

DKs will only ever look good on spreadsheets, and they'll only be balanced around spreadsheets. The reality is that they'll underperform compared to all of their counterparts, and will remain the largest victims of the gap between perfect play and realistic play. For every DPM post that'll make DKs look good, there'll be half a dozen unshared screenshots that will show a more mediocre picture, mostly due to requiring thought for input and well constructed parties of players to work out. The variance among that is probably widest among DKs compared to all other classes, and it'll knock them down far more than any balance discussions are willing to admit. Most discussion also fails to include just how buff dependent DKs are compared to other warriors, which also adds to the argument that DKs are wildly varied in their results. If you want SE in CWKPQ, you need to either bring your own or spend 10% of your time walking back in order to maintain a 12% DPS buff(no mount allowed either, hope you have 140% speed). If you want SE in HT, you're likely to spend a long portion of the fight crossing over, as being a strong DK fighting right arm is only advisable with 4 powerful ranged characters in the party, but even that can be dubious with poor Right Head cancel RNG. SI is also a buff that DKs are incapable of working around, at least in the case of Heroes and Paladins they have weapon options to mitigate the need for SI, but DKs are left wanting. They are the #2 highest buff reliant class in the game, only losing out to Night Lords in buff reliance, but even then DKs require multiple so they're probably more similar in buff greed than not.

They're likely to remain inconsistent in all content, and any balance discussions I've witnessed bring me to the conclusion that it will remain the case even post buff, as nothing I've mentioned has ever been more than a footnote. It's also my opinion from past changes that any balances will be so conservative that they'll appear muted in their efficacy. Classes are only accidentally made overpowered via unfleshed content changes, the actual changes to classes have every detail scrutinized. It's okay to not know what class tierlists would look like with content releases/changes before being pushed through, but it's not okay to push out class buffs without arduous discussions, ensuring that DKs will never be allowed near the top of any list.

It's nice to consider class viability earlier though. Personally, I don't think that level 38 is even 1% of the way to a proper late game character in terms of hours played, but that's mostly a testament to how incredibly grindy this game is. Similar classes that are in a good spot(attentive, mechanical play) would be Marksmen and Corsairs, but they can be challenging early on without a base level of funding for leech and game knowledge. One can also joke about the number of maxed DKs who rerolled into Corsair, it's the route of choice. :^) For something with about equal levels of commitment(easy to wash, easy to level) Paladin is the viable alternative to DK, just without the mechanics of 4th job. For a mix between slightly mechanical play and low-to-mid requirements to get off of the ground there are Buccaneers. Those 4 classes are the ones I'd recommend making over a DK, depending on the experience one wants to have.
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The ironic thing about all this discussion is that the OP has probably already moved on and hasn't read any of these posts which are actual meaningful discussion.

Staff take too long to address any real issues regarding DKs and new players ain't got no time for that lmao

Ainz · Jan 23, 2023

ryanlights please, for the love of all that is holy, learn to combine multiple posts into 1 message.

UnknownCode · Jan 23, 2023

ryanlights said: ↑

Mounts are not allowed inside any party quests
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Ahh, thats why.. lol, dang..

It would be pretty nice QoL to add mounts into CWKPQ because NL has Flash Jump and Mages have Teleport, and Corsair has Recoil.

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