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My hot takes for hero buffs

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Endorphinss, Jun 12, 2024.

  1. Endorphinss
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    Endorphinss Selkie Jr.

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    9:35 AM
    Endorphins
    TL;DR
    1. ACA cast time 200 > 300 [sec] && 2 orb recharge chance 75% > 90%
    2. Power crush character lock time reduced from 2 attacks lost per cast to 1 attack
    3. Slight increase to Panic damage
    4. Increase afk check time (for warriors in general)

    Hello everyone!
    Many threads were opened about this topic already, but in my personal opinion none of them touch the real issues. I want to start by stating the following:

    1. Despite what everyone constantly claim, hero is a pretty good class. Best cleave damage, very decent single target damage, easy to wash and has some minor (but replaceable) party utilities. Every change I'm going to suggest here is a slight tweak to already existing skills. I really don't believe any type of rework should be introduced to the class (such as the IED enrage change)

    2. I fully accept that this class is probably trash at PB (although I've never done it yet). Its completely OK for a class to be less efficient in a certain boss than other classes. Allot of the comments written here in such threads for some reason only take PB in consideration. PB is the end game of maple, but this boss is really being done by probably 1% of the game's population. Its also like a once or twice a week boss iirc, so i really find it hard to understand why to base our entire balance on it. For me, PB is not relevant when discussing about the class (unless changes will be made that will make PB cleaver friendly).

    3. I'm about to claim something that might be arguable, but i personally divide warrior classes in the following way in my mind:
    • Dark knights - best party utility skill in the game, best style and overall appearance, second best warrior cleaver
    • Paladins - High single target damage, 100% reliable pinning in relevant bosses (second best party utility), elemental damage multipliers, worst warrior cleave
    • Heroes - Best cleaver, Decent single target damage, worst party utility abilities
    Therefore, since heroes don't have a certain niche to them unlike dark knights and paladins, i believe it should be similar to what night lords brings to the table, a higher DPM from all warrior classes. Again, might be arguable but that's how i believe things should be. I just want to state that higher DPM should only come in practice by usage of panic in single target scenarios (Not by buffing brandish).

    With all that put aside, the main problem for heroes in my personal opinion is consistency. I feel the main problem of heroes right now is the dpm loss over time caused by lack of consistency in this class. These are the main problems i would LOVE to see solved to address this:

    1. ACA is too short, and highly rng dependent
    ACA is the main damage multiplier for heroes, without it we are nothing. Advanced combo attack is a 4th job skill with only 200 seconds cast (since its really a 3rd job skill). 200 seconds is TOO SHORT compared to the usual 5 minutes cast time of 4th job skills. Considering that every new cast consumes all your orbs and requires around 5~6 hits to recharge it fully, it is a major DPM loss over time.
    In addition to that, there is only a 75% chance to gain 2 orbs at each strike on max level. This is like adding RNG on top of the usual damage RNG. Sometimes you can get a panic followed by 3 brandishes, sometimes its 4 or even 5 brandishes. Inconsistent DPM loss.
    I would like to see 4th job ACA skill add cast time to combo attack (200 seconds to 300 at max level), and increase the 2 orb recharge chances to match at least power stance.

    2. Power crush is a double-edged sword
    Recent Neo Tokyo changes added defense buffs to many bosses. This brought a new party utility aspect to the class in addition to rage (while also being a replaceable one), But it also introduced another DPM loss over time. Power crush is a SLOW skill to cast. Using a 2H sword and si, you lose about 2 attacks every time you cast it. This might sound like a negligible difference, but the boss's defense buffs are frequent (i think its around 40 seconds to each cast). This DPM loss stacks up.
    I would like to see a reduced cast time to this skill. Optimal change will be to make it like enrage/hero's will, which dosent lock your character at all, but with a slight cooldown of 1~2 seconds (to avoid just spamming it). Realistic approach will be just to reduce its cast time so only 1 attack will be lost.

    3. Slightly increase panic damage (maybe increase damage cap aswell)
    Panic changes are the best non oldschool changes introduced to heroes. To compensate, the overall damage was nerfed. Although i don't have numbers to support this claim, i believe reverting to the old damage numbers can be beneficial to compensate for the dpm loss the class is experiencing during bosses. It also fits my narrative of "heroes should have the highest dpm due to lack of party utility" mentioned above.

    4. AFK check should be higher for warriors because of power stance
    Since warriors get knocked back less compared to rest of the characters, i believe the time to force a player to move to prevent afk gameplay should be increased. This afk check has a good intention behind it, but it just feels like a burden to move even tho I'm completely into the fight, in a good position, doing damage. This is not hero specific, but i believe this will be a major QoL change to all my warrior friends here.

    Sorry for the long and exhausting post, i like to use these opportunities to work on my English OnionPretty. Would love to hear other's opinion.

    Thank you for reading and have a nice day. LHC when.




     
    • Like x 5
    • Great Work x 5
    • Disagree x 2
    • Agree x 1
    • Friendly x 1
  2. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    Runge 4president
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Tarnished
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    Tarnished Mr. Anchor

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    11:35 PM
    Confessor, Tarnished, Hawthorn
    Hero
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    ^ The only Hero buff we need
     
  4. Notorious
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    Notorious Horny Mushroom

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    I don't know enough about warriors to comment on the content of the post, but your English was quite good overall! I think it's awesome that people are using games like ML to help learn a new language. I'm considering joining a Spanish guild on one of my characters so I can practice my Spanish more!
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  5. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    It's a good thing, I've improved my English a bit (which is still bad) by working on the forum, and also, it's useful for the community
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 3
  6. HotCow
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    HotCow Chronos

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    Wait you failed to say something about axes!
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2024
    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. Kirisame
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    Kirisame Windraider

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    Marisa Kirisame
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    I think dark knights should have better cleave DPM than heros in perfect conditions (hyper zerking), just like corsairs vs night lords.

    But the real problem here is not DK vs Hero.
    It's more of replacing an attacker in an optimized team made of BS + SE + TL + NL + NL + NL in many contents.
     
  8. Juneriffic56
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    Juneriffic56 Timer

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    11:35 PM
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    I like your take on Hero buffs, and agree with most of it.

    Only thing I'd say is I wouldn't change the duration of ACA, cause while it's indeed short, it also lines up perfectly with booster as is, and them being mismatched would be rather awkward imo. Of course, you COULD just also increase duration on Sword/Axe Booster, but then it's inconsistent between classes.

    Also, I'd include Shout in the "decrease cast time" group, cause that skill also feels sluggish and is already incredibly niche as it is. If both Shout and Armor Crash were way faster to cast, it'd help Heroes be more competitive in Core Blaze especially (which is my #1 boss so I may be biased lmao)
     
  9. OP
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    Endorphinss
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    Endorphinss Selkie Jr.

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    I don't think this small inconvenience is preferable in compariaon to higher dpm. My humble opinion. Also I wanted to include shout, but it's relevant mostly to core so changing a single skill just for this seems too much.

    This is exactly the type of conversation i would like to stay away from. I don't care about the most optimal mix max situations, since its really not relevant to this suggestion (and the majority of player base). I never said anything about drk vs hero aswell.
     
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  10. HollyCrap
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    HollyCrap Capt. Latanica

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    An increase in panic dmg would be nice in order to encourage a non afk-like gameplay. And yes, i'm aware that you already do more dmg using panic + brandish today, my point is that is not THAT huge of a difference c:
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  11. Kirisame
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    Kirisame Windraider

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    Marisa Kirisame
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    Sorry I was not commenting on what you've suggested here.
    I do wish to see some diversity in optimal team combinations.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. OP
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    Endorphinss
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    Endorphinss Selkie Jr.

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    I currently can get up to 1.5m more dpm while utilizing panic, its pretty much the difference from whiting a boss or not. Pretty significant difference imo
     
  13. HollyCrap
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    HollyCrap Capt. Latanica

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    it is indeed.. maybe i just suck then? lmao
     
  14. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    ItzLeo
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    increase to much will be griefed by damage cap (unless we do something with cap, maybe like pierce arrow?)
     
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