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Party Exp

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Xydan, Apr 13, 2020.

  1. Xydan
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    Xydan Chronos

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    9:32 PM
    Xydan
    After playing Maplelegends and a couple other oldschool servers for a while, I've come to realise that Holy Symbol is incredibly dominant. HS pretty much dictates the tempo at which you grind, and where the best maps are; you almost always want to find a priest w/ HS for grinding. With the recent loss of Mannies, this has only become more true.

    After looking at the party exp numbers, I believe a "bandaid" for this problem is to increase the bonus party exp, but nerf HS by the same amount. This would help people who can't find HS to grind more efficiently in a party, but also keep HS from becoming even stronger.

    According to what I can find on the forum, the party bonus is 10% for 2 people, 15% for 3, and so on. A max HS gives 50% for parties of 2+. If we change the numbers so that the party bonus is increased by 10% at all sizes, but nerf HS by 10%, we can help ease the dependence on HS but still keep priests incredibly valuable. A 20% exp bonus would help tremendously; many maps are either inefficient with a party, or just better solo. And I can only think of a handful of maps that are actually viable with 3+ people, especially without HS.

    This party bonus exp buff would make 2-man parties without HS more consistently useful, instead of only sometimes worthwhile, and may actually make 3+ parties effectual on more maps. Considering the numerous discussions on how to encourage party play, perhaps instead of nerfing currently meta maps (like mannies) we can make parties without HS desirable.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    7:32 PM
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    good suggestion +1
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. SwordnBoard
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    SwordnBoard Selkie Jr.

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    I like it.

    Might help curb the 'just make a bishop first lol' mentality i keep seeing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Lirbo
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    Lirbo Slimy

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    Bad idea imo, it'd break the leeching market.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 11
  5. SwordnBoard
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    SwordnBoard Selkie Jr.

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    Why is this a bad thing.....?

    Mind you im a bit biased i REALLY dislike leeching as a whole. I can see why people who make stupid high int toons for muh washing would 'need' leeching.

    Guess people just wanna pay to be lazy otherwise...?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    It's time to break it.

    I agree with this suggestion
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  7. flashblaize
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    flashblaize Chronos

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    3:32 AM
    promisQ
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    The whole leeching community needs to raise the price for leeching. Like 10m split 20m solo. High Level Leech from 100 Like 20/40.

    This will let ppl think twice If they really want to buy leech. The Partybonus XP could be Higher from 3+ partymember when all active.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  8. Lirbo
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    Lirbo Slimy

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    Yeah... no.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  9. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    Yeah... yes, fuck leeching with all my heart.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  10. YoniSL
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    YoniSL Slime

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    meso bills y'alll
    3:32 AM
    Uziah
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    [P]Erion
    Sounds like an interesting thing, especially how it might affect leeching which I personally consider to be a somewhat an odd way of leveling.
     
  11. Lirbo
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    Lirbo Slimy

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    Leeching been always a part of this community, there's even a dedicated channel for it on the server Discord. You can't just change it all one day, cut people in the middle and suddenly break it after there are tons of characters who already enjoyed this benefit. Not to mention, what those who already got the high INTs would do? Also, it would destroy the whole purpose of having mage mules (aside of lv 81 HS mules).
    Let people spend their mesos on leech if they want to, you don't have to do it yourself if you don't want to. Nobody's competing you.

    EDIT: There are places that you can't even boss at without stupid amount of hp washing (such as Neo Tokyo, that'd completely kill it).

    [​IMG]
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  12. Skuire
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    Skuire Nightshadow

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe this change would affect leeching? It would keep HS the same while buffing parties without HS.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  13. artificial
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    artificial Orange Mushroom

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    6:32 PM
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    Sounds like you enjoy others not actually playing the game and instead letting you spam your mage ulti for mesos. What about the people with high int gears? They can use them to wash wtf. The whole point of this thread was to BUFF PARTY EXP which would end a reliance on leeching to get to higher levels. If you are saying that NO ONE can boss at Neo Tokyo without leeching, then that shows there is a problem. You should not have to buy leech to level in this game (skusku would agree). You shouldn't have to solo grind at places like mannequins or ghost ship to level up, adding bonus party exp would encourage people to party together instead of leeching. I have a 14X shad and have had issues finding people to train with for MONTHS. My internet isn't good enough to boss, I have 600ms ping since i live in the boonies. Screw the leech paradigm, lets buff party exp.
     
  14. OP
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    Xydan
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    Xydan Chronos

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    I'm not sure why people think this change would somehow "break the leeching market." Leeching is like 10x faster than grinding. Unless we're buffing party bonus exp to 200%, leeching is going to stay.

    This change is just to make grinding in a party more worthwhile consistently.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    If you don't like leech then don't buy it. I don't understand the constant complaining about it as nobody is forcing you to leech, and trying to make everyone play the game your way is toxic.

    Better party exp/slightly nerfed HS would help though. A party of 2 level 75's killing mobs that give 1,000 exp would look something like this:
    Killer: monster exp x (.2 + .8 x level/total party level) x HS factor + (party size bonus)
    Leecher: monster exp x (.8 x level/total party level) x HS factor + (party size bonus)

    Killer: 1000 x (.2 + .8 x 75/150) + 10%
    = 600 + 60 exp
    Leecher: 1000 x (.8 x 75/150) + 10%
    = 400 + 40 exp

    Killer with HS: 1000 x (.2 + .8 x 75/150) x 1.5 + 10%
    = 900 + 90 exp
    Leecher with HS: 1000 x (.8 x 75/150) x 1.5 + 10%
    = 600 + 60 exp

    Killer with additional bonus party: 1000 x (.2 + .8 x 75/150) + 20%
    = 600 + 120 exp
    Leecher with additional bonus party: 1000 x (.8 x 75/150) + 20%
    = 400 + 80 exp

    Killer with additional bonus party exp and new HS: 1000 x (.2 + .8 x 75/150) x 1.4 + 20%
    = 840 + 168 exp
    Leecher with additional bonus party exp and new HS: 1000 x (.8 x 75/150) x 1.4 + 20%
    = 560 + 112 exp

    So for 2 people training together at a similar level, it would be about a ~10%(660->720 exp) increase for them without HS and a ~2%(990->1008 exp) increase with HS.

    Now let's see what happens with leech, with a level 150 mage and 2 level 75 leeches, and the mage is killing mobs with 1000 exp again:
    Old system mage: 1000 x (.2 + .8 x 150/300) x 1.5 + 15%
    = 900 + 135 exp
    Old system leech: 1000 x (.8 x 75/300) x 1.5 + 15%
    = 300 + 45 exp

    New system mage: 1000 x (.2 + .8 x 150/300) x 1.4 + 25%
    = 840 + 210 exp
    New system leech: 1000 x (.8 x 75/300) x 1.4 + 25%
    = 280 + 70 exp

    It would be another slight buff all around, so for leeching you'd get like 1% more exp overall. That might need to be tweaked.

    Now let's see what happens with a full party of 6 level 75 characters killing mobs that have a base exp of 1000.
    Killer: 1000 x (.2 + .8 x 75/450) + 30%
    = 333 + 100 exp
    Leecher: 1000 x (.8 x 75/450) + 30%
    = 133 + 40 exp

    Killer with HS: 1000 x (.2 + .8 x 75/450) x 1.5 + 30%
    = 500 + 150 exp
    Leecher with HS: 1000 x (.8 x 75/450) x 1.5 + 30%
    = 200 + 60 exp

    Killer with additional bonus party: 1000 x (.2 + .8 x 75/450) + 40%
    = 333 + 133 exp
    Leecher with additional bonus party: 1000 x (.8 x 75/450) + 40%
    = 133 + 53 exp

    Killer with additional bonus party exp and new HS: 1000 x (.2 + .8 x 75/450) x 1.4 + 40%
    = 466 + 186 exp
    Leecher with additional bonus party exp and new HS: 1000 x (.8 x 75/450) x 1.4 + 40%
    = 186 + 74 exp

    Pretty well the same story when it's 6 people as well. It's about a ~7% buff to those without HS and a <1% buff with HS compared to the old numbers. It could probably work for most numbers but at the same time I don't think leech should be buffed, even if it's just by 1%.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  16. OP
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    Xydan
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    Xydan Chronos

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    Are your calculations accurate? As in, does HS actually apply before the party buff? I always thought that HS and party bonus applied to the base exp, before they are x2.

    Regardless, I doubt we need to concern ourselves with 6 member parties. I can't think of a single map that holds 6 training together simultaneously.
     
  17. cakesogood
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    cakesogood Windraider

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    yes i agree removing leeching no more slavery wooooooooooo
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Buffles
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    Buffles Dark Stone Golem

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    I think what you're forgetting is that some leech maps are some of the most common if not the best grinding spots for everyone as well. The best example is ghost ships, which ends up in maps being more crowded because apart from the amount of players looking for maps to grind, there will also be high level bishops looking for maps to sell leech. This is also the same for WR and other maps.
    Although there has been other suggestions to buff other less popular maps that could possibly provide more options (like FoG recently) to help this but leeching does cause sort of a problem because it does impact how others want to play at the moment. You may not see it but for those who don't want to buy leech certain levels become hell due to the lack of options available.
     
  19. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    There was a time before leech was commonly done, and also significantly worse than it is now. It wasn't a super viable option, yet people managed to get up anyways. Skellies was the fastest leech you could get, and even then it was a lot slower than it is now after the mob cap buffs there. There were only a few Arch Mages because they hadn't yet had the functionality of multiclienting, so if you had one a lot of the time you'd need to also leech a priest (usually for free) as well to get the best exp. They also didn't have places like Ulu 2 or Petris either, so their best options ended up being some mediocre ToT mobs. F/P AM was basically a dead class before Ulu came out. And even if you did have a second computer or VM for another client, you couldn't farm extra NX to wash on that second account because of voting rules.

    So no, leveling is not hell for certain classes without leech, certainly not now that there are so many options available. The game is significantly easier than it was 3-4 years ago.

    Is leech strong? Yeah. Are other options available? Also yeah. I haven't forgotten anything, I simply remember when things were much more difficult and had people work through it anyways.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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