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Updated Scroll prices (new guide with user enterable info)

Discussion in 'Items & Mesos' started by Ciffy, Jan 8, 2018.

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  1. Ciffy
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    Ciffy King Slime

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    11:49 AM
    Ciffy
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    ImaWhaleOroO
    Guys, I've made a first pass at a tool that we can all use to keep prices up to date. Right now it tracks everything that was in C++s guide, but if it works well, I can easily add more types of items.

    Would you do me a solid and check it out? I know it's fugly, but it's just a proof of concept.

    Link removed due to OP inactivity (see latest post)

    I promise I'm not trying to give you malware. =D

    The idea is that you get to a scroll type and see prices entered by others. If there aren't any prices (or if you'd like to add more concrete / recent info), then you can add prices. The hope is that you enter prices that an item ACTUALLY sold (or was bought) for.

    We can add things like min / max and std deviation, but for now you can simply see every entry entered for that scroll type in historical order. Given that C++'s guide is now gone, I will start to add more features assuming the use will pick up.

    The first step requires a username so that we can track who's entering what (and a user that's entering a lot of obviously bogus info can have all their data wiped quickly). I would like to work with the GMs to get a link from these forums that manages that automatically, but I haven't been successful in getting their attention to see if that's even possible.

    Priorities:
    - some way to flag or remove your own entries

    Possibilities:
    - Delete your own entries (will req from forum link to keep people from entering others names)
    - Show all items sold for over x amount
    - Ore price list (mithril, power, bc, etc)
    - equip items with single stat (ie 1att socks or 4 att pac, would be too complicated to track multiple stats across a single item and have prices for all)
    - Show items with no entries? With less than 5 entries? With only entries older than x days? 10 days?
    - Auto graph a price list based on time?

    Please feel free to add suggestions or comments here. There's no interaction on the website to post comments, so we'll have to do that here. Thanks!

    Changelog:
    1/7: Now showing the last few entries on the home page. Helps make the site feel more alive since you can see the last time someone else entered data.
    1/8: Per a suggestion, I updated the actual price list to be a hopefully more easy to digest table format and changed the age column to use the "x seconds/minutes/hours/days ago" format from the front page. Also reordered the price list to show most recent additions at the top.
    1/9: Added shortened URL to hopefully make advertising easier, even though apparently that's frowned upon in game. >_<. Changed "recently" area to show scroll prices added instead of users. Added a hard date column to the price page per a suggestion.
    1/13: Added average price and standard deviation to price list. Prettied up price page a little. Put some more thought into marking or removing bad entries. Added a disclaimer to front page about using discretion for people to not read and then complain about. :p
    1/13 part b: added a footer to point people back here or to PM me with problems. Also took care of my top 2 to do's: got a filter at the top for %s or scroll types. Managed to get it functional before the site went to sleep. Should probably look at taking donations or something to move to a paid platform. >_<
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2018
    • Great Work Great Work x 6
  2. Cora
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    Cora Selkie Jr.

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    4:49 PM
    Nier/EviHs
    dont like it that they just went ahead and deleated everything. MapleF3
    (even outdate data can give some small insight...)

    but i like the idea about a comuntiy based pricelist :3
    it would prevent the burn out many other list expierienced during their time.

    but i can already see a problem.
    we have over 600 players which could completly freely access this webside and add their prices.
    with that amount we can already say for certain someone of does 600 is going to abuse this list in their favor.
    adding high prices for their scrolls and adding lower prices for what they need.

    username track is a good idea but with a huge flaw right now
    there is no passwort system in place so everyone can just write any name and than switch it up for next prices
    or even worse track down a name that has added a lot of correct prices and than use that name to add false one.

    possible solution against that could be:
    ip tracker
    passwort (but this isnt a good choice since anyone is able to create new emails in 5 mins)
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. ionian
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    ionian King Slime

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    Yeah, not really sure what Kimberly was thinking by just deleting the guide outright...
     
  4. tinusterror
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    tinusterror Orange Mushroom

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    well she only removed the link of the forum, the page is still up on google
     
  5. Shinohara
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    Shinohara Headless Horseman

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    It made sense to remove the old price-list in my opinion as an outdated data source and changing market dynamics just spells trouble due to the high possibility of price discrepancies.
    The old table could offer insight but inaccuracy does result in uncertainties and possible need for one to recon the market themselves to assess the actual product value, thus diminishing the value of the old guide.

    Either that or i've gone crazy from the overuse of graphs and excel sheets.
     
  6. thugric
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    thugric Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    tbh it made a lot of sense becuase some prices were just way off
     
  7. OP
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    Ciffy
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    Ciffy King Slime

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    ImaWhaleOroO
    Yes, this is the biggest problem. What i would like to do to solve that is have a link on the forum menu or something that hands me a username and / or a session flag that i can use to determine that a) they're a forum user and b) they actually came from ML. It would require someone to spoof that flag in order to post as someone else, which wouldn't be trivial.

    For the time being, though, you just have to look at that data in aggregate. Heartstoppers for ex, are showing 110k, 130k and 1.2 billion. Chances are that 1.2 bil number isn't accurate, which is another reason doing averages and stuff is flawed, imo.

    GFA60 is another one. Prices range from 1.1 to 1.5m on there right now. You could try to sell for 1.5, but if there's no buyers, there's clearly proof that they will sell at lower prices. it's not going to be concrete, which is what I didn't like about C++s guide. He gave a range, but that just means that buyers looked at the lowest number and sellers just looked at the highest and both saw concrete numbers. By showing HOW you get that low and high, you can get a bigger picture of oh, it's actually only 1 1.5 entry and 6 1.1 entries, and then you can infer that's it's much more likely to sell at the lower number. Likewise, wand60 is the opposite. Myself and one other person listed them at 100k and since then 4 or 5 more people have come along and said closer to 300k. That means that the low people probably didn't try a higher number and lowballed ourselves.

    Hope that makes sense. I'm aware that there's flaws in the way it operates (and assumes people are being honest), but this method also allows the site to run without me (or anyone else) having to constantly monitor FM for prices. People can just enter the stuff they bought and sold for and hopefully it'll work itself out. You just have to use common sense with it.
     
  8. Cora
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    Cora Selkie Jr.

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    well they are outdate so its no wonder :eek:
    (and i believe people read more than just number when they go through it o.o)

    but you can use the guide for more than just price check :D

    it can still show you which scrolls are worth keeping
    and help you pick the right quest reward :D

    thats something all new player could need at specially during pq ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. theKatia
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    theKatia Capt. Latanica

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    I would have wanted it up, there was a warning at the top anyway. I used it solely to see which scrolls are more sought after and which aren't. Sometimes I'd think something is junk and it's worth 5m.

    Anyway, thanks for making this. It may be flawed but it's definitely better than nothing and could at least satisfy the above use for a scroll pricing guide- just seeing a lot of different entries on one item can show it's sought after.

    Edit: Being able to edit/delete my own entries would be really useful :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Marc Antony
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    Marc Antony Master Chronos

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    She was totally right for doing that. There's no reason to hang onto outdated information and even with a disclaimer that says 'this might not be right anymore' it's misinformation still might cause harm, again to zero potential benefit.

    Anyways, while I can appreciate this guide in it's current form I'd suggest a visual overhaul so that it's easier to navigate. I think finding the scroll you're looking for works fine as is but the information entered should be reorganized into a table, and months perhaps shown in their abbreviations rather than identified with a number. Nobody thinks of JAN as 1 or NOV as 11. I think a easy to navigate interface will be very important for a collaborative project like this. The entire community will be more likely to contribute if it's more accessible.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  11. jsy0221
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    jsy0221 Red Snail

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    agree
     
  12. OP
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    Ciffy
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    Ciffy King Slime

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    ImaWhaleOroO
    You mean the numbers people have entered, shown as a table? Because the main page IS organized into a table as much as I can get it. Short of just having one entry for 1h sword and then showing all the different %ages on the following page (which then makes entering a price take ANOTHER click at least), I'm not sure how to organize it better; there are just a LOT of different types of scrolls.

    Changing the date format shouldn't be a problem. I was already thinking about reordering it so it showed the newest prices entered at the top instead of bottom. I think maybe doing it like the recent entries area and saying entered x seconds/minutes/days ago, etc would be better, no?

    This is very much meant to be a collaborative project and I want to take feedback and make stuff better so it's completely usable long after I've stopped maplelegending.

    Please feel free to reply here (preferred) or inbox / discord me with suggestions or questions. Inbox me if you entered something incorrectly by accident until I get self-deleting figured out.
     
  13. Crow
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    Crow Red Snail

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    This link is asleep. What do I do? :(
     
  14. ionian
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    ionian King Slime

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    I guess, but it was nice to have some kind of a ballpark idea.
     
  15. OP
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    Ciffy
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    Ciffy King Slime

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    Unfortunately, that's the cost of a free host. It sleeps from 3 - 4 am EST daily and short of paying for a real host, it's pretty much the only drawback, short of the tiny ad in the lower right. It's the best host I could find that allowed me full phpmyadmin access to mySQL and full php scripting while being completely free and containing hosting space. I'm open to other hosts that can allow me to do all of that and not have to pay anything.
     
  16. Marc Antony
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    Marc Antony Master Chronos

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    Yeah I was referring to the user entered prices as being unworldly. The main page, I think, is laid out really well, although maybe once the project is further along it can be given a facelift with some colour, but that's too far away to focus on now. Adding 'entered x seconds/minutes/days ago' would probably be the more popular choice but I, personally, think a date would be preferable because it'd be easier to identify changes in the market, corresponding to things like people leaving the server for school or the prices of things after a big update, and so forth.

    We should be promoting this in-game as much as is tolerable.
     
  17. OP
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    Ciffy
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    Ciffy King Slime

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    Here's a better way to advertise: http://bit.do/MLPC.

    I can add both month day format and "x ago" to the table without a problem. Bout to do my first zrun for a 4th skill job book, will try to mess with stuff more tonight.
     
  18. Marc Antony
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    Marc Antony Master Chronos

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    ACB? Good luck. I just hit 4th too, went 5 Zakums dry before I got it.

    I think a big thing you can do is to change the 'Recently added' from a time and a person to, a time and what the item was. People will prefer a '50 minute update on Claw Attack 30' than a '50 minute update from Marc Antony'
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. OP
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    Ciffy
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    Ciffy King Slime

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    yeah, acb. >_< run 1 was a loss. 10% xp gone too.

    I updated the recently section as suggested. I mainly put the names in there b/c I wouldn't have to look stuff up in a different table, plus it made me feel good to see different names pop up in the recently. Little bit of extra work though, your suggestion was better.
     
  20. tinusterror
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    tinusterror Orange Mushroom

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