Let's talk about washing too

I disagree. Reducing the cost of each AP reset will only help people that are knowledgeable about hp washing, not affecting those who do not. In addition, reducing them only expedites the whole washing process, meaning only purpose is serves is to save time for washing.

In my opinion, I believe the best way to help out with the whole washing situation is to make people more knowledgeable of how this process works. Now that is a really broad statement, but I think Kimberly 's idea is a step in the right direction, implementing hp washing as directly part of our game.

However, some of my opinions a little bit different compared to hers, especially with the one gaining additional MP instead of HP- if the usable item gets added to gain additional mp, that means the person is going to have to spend at least two ap resets to wash unlike just once with fresh ap. Because of that, I just feel like adding that to the max HP instead pool instead would be more beneficial and save more hassle to waste more nx (assuming correct hp is added with corresponding max hp skills on that particular job).

 

I have to agree with some, that keeping HP washing in the game due to Nostalgia is kind of "meh". It was a money grab gimmick and since there is no money grab here, I don't see the point of the mechanic existing. I can't throw money at Neckson for AP reset, so I could claim my Nostalgia is broken. I think Annolis made probably the best honest suggestion. Overhaul HP and MP gain for classes so they reach the necessary levels without Wash to do bosses at given levels eliminating Leech and need to wash. I just think personally that the Orbs are in a right direction for making Washing LESS PAINFUL, but not for solving the problem..

 

I agree with the sentiment that additional washing should be unnecessary in the game. The only reason people are doing it is to be able to survive bosses as sson as possible. You shouldn't.

Why bother going HT at 15x? You're not going to deal any damage to it anyway. Currently HT is endgame. He's the final boss. You should just NOT be able to already do that at 15x. What are you going to do in the rest of your 50 levels?

As a Pirate with 4 base INT, and no INT equips I have already been able to wash 8 times. I'm level 62. I can wash for atleast another 12 times before I'm 150. By level 160 i'll have washed 25 times, without adding any int at all. With the HP equips from dep star, ellin ring and potentially others, I'm going to be just fine.

People who are washing like hell should do as they please in my opinion. The game borderline sucks for them before they are 140+ and have washed tons of NX. Also you'll have to spend millions and millions on leech. Go right ahead, if thats what you want.. I prefer to actually enjoy the game and my way to high level.

 

Just to reassure you of my position - those that have done the work of washing, I feel, should have more say in the matter because you're all making the sacrifice for the rest of us if something is changed. I agree with you that if you want these kinds of goals that you have to work for it. I, too, do not believe it should be "given" or made too easy. But I most definitely concur with your initial idea that only level 200s should be given access to these types of methods of increasing HP/MP.

 

I like this idea, and seeing as the ellin ring is now available as a quest reward that directly adds 100hp, the staff does too. This ring is obtained through a series of quests which takes a fair bit of effort, but also promotes playing together as you can hunt for the items for eachother, and do the collection quests together. I'd like to see higher level quests reward players in a similar way that TOT quest reward people with a great grind spot, bossing with helmets+books, and pqing with exclusive items (e.g. broken glasses/lord pirate chair). I don't do high level quest because the rewards don't really adjust well to higher levels in the same way that a "kill 99 zombie mushrooms" does to provide potions for a low level nib.

Imagine if the quest from Jay to find the Maple History Books and it's subsequent quests rewarded you with increased hp. This quest begins at lv 25 and doesn't end until lv 90, and requires a lot of travelling. Unfortunately the current rewards for this quest are a bunch of scrolls of variable value all at a % chance. This quest seems fun and an added incentive would make it even more so

 

I disagree with this suggestion because I think 15k/30k hp night lords are stupid, and this is coming from a guy who is making a 14k hp bow.
Giving the entire playerbase the ability to make a new, high hp NLs will kill class diversity in the bossing scene.

Maple classes aren't exactly balanced, but ranged characters have a weakness of low hp values.
Giving them access to cheap AP resets throws this counter-balance out the window, as the average NL will now have much higher hp.

This will cause spearmen will fall out of meta, and probably ALL other non-NL's classes to fall out of meta too. Why bring a lower-dps warrior when you could bring another NL who is practically invincible and the best single-target dps available? Who needs Speed Infusion from a Buccaneer anymore when your entire team is max attack speed cuz they're NLs?

Not only that, but the impact on those who have unplanned / minimally washed characters is severe, as they are now even more outclassed by those who did plan from the get-go.

My thoughts on hp:
There is an 5.6k hp requirement in place to boss horntail w/ HB. There is an argument to be made that Horntailing @ 5.6k hp is stressful/ bad quality of life/blahblah, but the facts are:

• You only NEED 5.6k
• Certain classes don't reach this number naturally, so those who aren't informed or didn't plan get fukd
  • Even if u never reach 155, knowing that there's this stressful number that you have to reach is discouraging
• 7.7k means you longer require HB, which is a bonus goal that some people may want to achieve.
• Anything after 7.7k is purely unnecessary, and should not be encouraged through cheap AP resets. If you want this excessive bonus hp, then it should be kept behind a large time barrier.

My thoughts on solutions:
5.6k should be accessible for every class in as pain-free a manner as possible, with minimal or no washing MINIMAL INT BURDEN at some reasonable level.

I thought that the +100 hp from ellin ring was an awesome step in the right direction.
There are a handful of good ideas enumerated here in this older thread too, such as buffing hp equips.
(as an aside, aint nobody is gonna accept wearing an hp cape over an att cape, but an hp mask or hp earring isn't too bad a dps hit)

EDIT: Here's another thot.. Add in a fourth job hp/mp BONUS like the one you get for 1st and 2nd job advancement. Make it different class by class such that those who don't need the hp (mages) don't get it, and those who do get a configurable bonus.
You could give every class the exact amount of mp they need to wash to 5.6k, or just short of it
I believe it was confirmed in some other thread that it is a simple database update to apply retroactive changes such as this

 

Here's a CRAZY idea - get ready to laugh your asses off, BUT...

What if enough Weapon Defense and Magic Defense made that 5.6k go down to something reasonable? That would make higher level equips and Defense Scrolls actually worthwhile and meaningful... *DUCKS FROM INCOMING HURLS OF ROTTEN TOMATOES*

 

The technical challenge here is a little daunting... Basically we're nullifying some 1-2k worth of damage through weapon defense. Horntail pendant and Zak helm already take 500+ dmg mobs down to 1dmg. Should mobs that do more 1.5-2.5k dmg now do 1 dmg?

I'm sure that's not how the damage/defence formula ACTUALLY works, but you get the idea.
It's possible then to tinker the fomula itself so that this behavior isn't absurd, but custom formulas mean we're getting into another bag of worms.

Max mp from an item cannot be used for washing

 

I think that makes an argument for having bossing gear and mobbing gear. It also gives more alternatives - focus on HP or focus on DEF. If trading in 1-2k worth of damage means you can survive a HT run, then is this the trade off you're willing to make? Of course, I would only hope (because I've not done bossing at the higher levels except when MapleStory became MapleNightmare) that this 1 to 2k deficit wouldn't make your character worthless. If it did, then the formula would need more tweaking. But, like you said, tinkering with the formula is another bag of worms.

 

I like the idea of diminishing returns made by xPrinciple and I have a specific number to recommend. In order to reach 5.6k hp at level 155 as a NL or BM you'll need to wash around 99 times, you'll actually has to wash less than 99 times since we now have the +100hp ring. So if a max mp giving item is implemented, I would say it should be less effective after a character has used it 100 times. Something like for the first 100 uses, each use will give you enough mp to wash 1 time, after your first 100 uses it will give mp enough for 1/2 a wash or even 1/4 a wash and maybe even less mp after at 200 uses or something. Also, if you want to discourage people to make a mage to fund their desired class, make the mp item untradeable so to prevent mages from buying it for their attackers.

Also, I don't get why people are shooting down idea of an item that increases your mp. In my opinion, it solves the one problem I hate about hp washing which is seeing lvl 110+ hermits with base 4 int finding out that they wont be able to HT till 18x unless they somehow conjure up 300 total INT to wash. With a way to gain mp without levelling with INT, they would be able to wash normally and reach required HPs for bosses.

"Oh, lvl 190+ players can't use it efficiently"

Well, if you're a lvl 190 player, chances are you already reached your desired hp, I would be shocked to find out a NL or BM thats lvl 190+ and cannot survive HT, also they can just add 1 AP into HP and reset mp back into hp infinitely until they reached min MP or reset it back into their primary stat.

"Warriors gets less popular since NLs will everywhere due to the change"

I would say, make it a grind to actually wash a NL or BM to 5.6k hp by making the item rare or only having a % chance of success. This means aspiring NLs will still have to put time and effort gathering these mp increasing items to wash, similar to players needing to put time and effort to earn mesos for INT gears and to level with base INT. Melee classes should always have an easier route to late game compared to ranged characters since ranged classes have better dps, so if we make it not easy to obtain these items, melee classes will still reach bosses a lot earlier than ranged classes.

I don't like the idea of a max hp giving item, its too good in my opinion and removes washing entirely and will definitely create a NL meta, since you don't need INT gears, you don't sacrifice your MP and you don't need to use AP Resets.

 

I think it is very important to add a mechanic that allows players to increase their HP and/or MP through a repeatable process, one that works alongside HP washing and keeps washing 100% intact. As others have pointed out, making such an item drop from bosses doesn't make very much sense, and these HP/MP rewards should instead come from a repeatable quest. You could keep things interesting by having the quest give 1 of 2 random rewards, commonly a MP increase (allowing people to HP wash normally), or more rarely a HP increase (wouldn't that just be a NX saver!). And why is washing to 30,000 HP considered a bad thing?

If anything, it gives players something to work towards, while the end result gives basically zero benefits.

However, in order for these HP/MP boosts to be compatible with HP washing, these benefits should diminish over time, making it increasingly more difficult to gain more HP and/or MP the more you've already completed the quest. HP washing would still work as it does now, but it is mainly for those who want to reach a target HP goal by a specific (usually very early) level in order to attempt a boss at an ideal level.

You could tailor the HP/MP gains depending on the player's job, and figure out the rate at which the benefits should diminish, making it so that players who never have washed can do these quests to easily reach the minimum HP range to attempt bosses, while attempting to gain further HP will just become longer and more tedious. For example, doing the quest the first 10 times gives a thief 12 MP or whatever, while on the 11th quest the thief would only get 11 MP, eventually decreasing down to 10, 9, 8 MP, and so on (these values are just examples).

I think with this solution, players still have a good reason to HP wash a little bit in order to boss at the levels they want, but don't need to go overboard and can rely on the HP/MP quest later on if need be. And those who have washed already now have an opportunity to increase their HP and MP if they want to further max out their already over-powered characters.

Edit: I see xPrinciple suggested diminishing returns earlier, didn't notice. Also, allowing classes to wash to maximum HP/MP is tweaked for each specific class to be easier or harder. For thieves and bowmen to attempt to get that high should be near impossible (quickly realizing they're only getting 1MP or HP increase per quest), but I don't think a limit on the number of times the quest can be done should be allowed as it's difficult to determine who deserves to do the quest X number of times, while it would be unfair to those who washed, etc.​

 

I respect that you are trying to improve the broken system of HP washing and improve Legends. However, this would have been a great idea to add on the first day of legends when people chose to go with an attacking class as their main instead of going for a bishop to leech their attacker. It just seems too late to fix this mechanic, and I hate to say this but once again this screws over old players (I know this isn't a final decision). Also there's almost no way someone reaches the level to HT without once hearing about HP washing either in-game or from the forums. It's been said before: washing to 5.6k hp for HT is really easy, especially now with the amount of INT equips available to borrow from guildies and friends, AP resets from events, the amount of mages to buy leech from, etc. Also, given that every player gets 5k nx a day for free, comparing HP washing to GMS washing isn't really fair since you had to pay real money for NX. Mimicking others, HP washing is a luxury and everyone on this server is given an equal opportunity to wash as much as they please. I think adding AP resets to events the way you guys have done in the past is the best approach to remedy HP washing. A total overhaul of the HP washing mechanic seems unnecessary given the amount of resources available to HP wash.

 

I'm also a big hater of HP washing as it does promote as many already mentioned, leeching and mages. Make a mage to get some money and be able to self leech (or buy) your way up because you'll be so weak it won't be fun to play.

I don't think HP washing should be mandatory. Sorry all you fellas that say "you can do this you can do that you don't NEED to wash, you do, lets just cut the bullshit. This is something many players don't have much knowledge about and to find as you said Kimmy, on level 140 that your character will basically be useless or will take so much nx voting.

As many people suggested to reduce cost of ap resets, get them in bundles, give players extra int stuff etc. Just no, this will make washing too easy. I believe that the current mechanic and cost should not be touched, it should still be available for people that want to be top of the line and have soemthing to strive for.

"Everyone will make NL and all other classes will be useless". I would like to see that you get only 5.6k (or whatever is the minimum necessity for HT with HB) so that HB'ers will still be needed in some cases. I strongly believe that people play the class they wanna play as long as it's useful in some way, if you make a NL and know that you can never boss unless you hp wash is somewhat of a let down. And, lets say almost everyone makes a NL, does it really matter? You will still want that pirate for SI, you will still want that bish for ress/HS, you will still want that DRK to be able to sell helms and boss runs to noobs with too little hp to survive.

HP washing discourages alts, actual gameplay, promotes leeching A LOT which is becoming a big problem here in my new eyes. You don't lvl to 155 you just put a shit ton into INT and go leech, you miss all the fun stuff up to the higher lvls since you've just been leeching all the way.

Alright so that being said, what could solve this? As I already mentioned, current mechanic should not be touched and available to those who wants it. It should be something that's awarded from ingame play. I have 3 possible solutions:

1. Make everyone get an extra boost at the job advancements to reach the minimum hp required with HB at lvl 155. This is the easy way out and a good solution.

2. Make quests that gives you a HP boost each, perhaps like people mentioned by farming non-instanced bosses like Mushmom. You still need to work a bit for it and will make people "go outside" more. Lowbies can meet high lvls that are on their way to the bosses or just at that map waiting, this creates an opportunity to ask experienced players for advice and perhaps make some new friends. Seeing as it's rewarded by quests, this can't be abused to make everyone get 30k hp. This is the best solution in my opinion.

3. Make some new rings with extra HP and add Ring for HP scrolls. This is also something that could be farmed ingame and promote actual gameplay over just waiting and leeching.

 

yes please solve this disease of the server making it all about mages and leech and intlord

 

I have previously input my suggestion on Hp washing on another thread and i am just going to summarize them again.

This suggestion has no draw back except that it conflict with the "Nostalgia" school of people that is against every changes that is not present in the Original Maplestory.

1. Give a small boost to HP/MP in each 2th, 3th and 4th Job Advancement for every class. ( Retroactive to all classes in those in the 200)
2. Revamp HP/Def scrolls to give more HP/MP/DEF to give them a actual use.
3. Chaos scroll of DEX/Strength/Luck give HP/MP.

This suggestion has a few problems.

1. Introduce increasing items drop from Area Boss that increases HP/MP.
a)The problem that would rise is the Selling of Map owner for boss. It would also add frustration to low lvl players if the Boss is part of a quest as the boss is camped by a mule.
b)Unless that item is unique and it drop only 1 per class (Like Deputy pendant)

In hindsight, the following could happen if NL and BW are buffed too heavily
DK are the only class to suffer and fall into abyss since HB are no longer needed for bosses

The gap between NL and BW with the rest of class become horribly widen. Every bossing/farmer bring in only NL and BW only.

HS leech, HP washing and Meso Sink. The 3 Sins of old school maplestory.

PS: Make OPQ Great Again.

 

or make leeching

too fcken bad, ppl bitch and moan "wheres HB, wheres HB" so the answer no. Dks are still wanted and needed for runs.

1) ppl dont wanna burn a shit ton of pots
2) buyers need HB (if you try to charge buyers extra cuz they need HB, thats kindve selfish and petty, because not everyone knows about this HP Washing Thing)
3) people complain they gunnA die cuz they have to double pot.

TLDR: Dks arent shit, and you dont know what youre talking about.

 

For whatever method (or if at all) this is implemented, I suggest it being only available from lvl 135 onwards. Zak leech level starts from 135.

For those that want to buy zak/HT at 50/120.
1. It’s a luxury, work for it.
2. You probably want it to wash, so you should be forced to wash and not rely on this since it’s meant to retroactively help those that didn’t wash

It would help keep HB more relevant. I have a few other thoughts on this topic but will write them later if topic is still open.

 

Read the post carefully, what i said was when NL and BW has enough HP to solo Bosses without the need of HB.

There is no need to be so toxic in replying if you do not agree. Almost every single thread you reply to, you always nitpick a few sentences.

i do not even seen any constructive suggestion/ideas in you discussion; is this how a discussion start even in your real life?

 

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yeah sorry, im not the best at these i guess. wont happen agian.

 

Having Golden Gach tickets still drop after Event would be cool still. most people use them for ap resets and they are still pretty rare dropping