Let's talk about washing too

Doing nothing solely on the notion that others have put in the effort is a logical fallacy. If we applied that same logic to the real world, it is entirely unfair that the elderly only had libraries and didn't have access to the Internet when they were growing up, therefore the younger generation should not have access to the Internet and should do all of their research using libraries. You see how silly this is? Upgrades make life easier for newcomers, yes, and it is inherently unfair that the older generations did not have the same luxury. But this is the way of things. Sometimes it is an upgrade, sometimes it is a correction to government / economics / social norms. Bringing this analogy back to HP Washing, yes - of course it is unfair to those who went through the effort and stayed vigilant. But when we KNOW it is broken and choose not to fix it is not rational. As Kimberly pointed out...

If MapleLegends begins hemorrhaging players and starts to wither because of HP Washing, should Kimberly just let the server die because it is unfair to the older players? A change is necessary - that should not be up for debate any longer. The question we're still grappling with is HOW this change should be done.

 

I've said this many times before and sadly I'm gonna have to repeat myself once again: old players aren't against the change because they want you to suffer like they did. They have been in this game longer then anyone, and thus they realise that if you add a system where you can gain 1.6k hp (at least since this removes the need to HP wash) it will just make everyone's HP go even higher then it already is, even the people who have washed already. This means that almost everyone will (flash) jump around with insane amounts of HP and dying becomes something of legend as it never happens again.

If you remove HP washing while adding this system you prevent new players from reaching these insane amounts of HP, but in turn you make older players broken beyond belief.

If you keep HP washing and implement this system everyone will become broken beyond belief.

So please, realize that in theory, this always benefits older players. It's just not a benefit they believe should be in the game.

 

This is a much better idea than having boss drops that give hp since we need said hp in order to do the boss in the first place. +1 vote for me


Kimberly any idea on what kind of stats the max level ring would give? I think it would need to give a very substantial amount of hp if it is going to replace washing.

 

Non repeatable, rewards ingame play not leeching and uses a slot that currently doesn't have too good options. I like it!

 

Personally I really like the monsterbook idea! Mostly because i was planning on completing it anyways. Would like to hear peoples opinions who are not that into monsterbook stuff tho.

 

Don't have much to say other than approved

 

I think the point is that if we are able to implement this revised system well. It won't result in a system where everyone becomes broken beyond belief. It's not supposed to make things "easier". At least that's the gist of what I got from the initial suggestion by Kimmy.

 

question:
does the book counts sets of the same card?
or would we be forced to keep them in out etc?

alsoooo if it is really 300 diffrent cards and if we need to collect 5 of each
that would be 1500 in total with some being easy to very hard to find.

i really hope the hp boost or maybe stat boost is gonna be worth it

 

ohhhh i though it would only save 1 card and the rest we need to exchange later xd

somehow i though it would be similar to gms monsterbook :3

 

Doesn't seem to me that she suggested anything that prevents my points from becoming legit concerns.

It can come with effort or whatever, but at the end of the day all this will do is make the entire server have 1k+ hp more.
Like mentioned before, I love this or other idea's that have been posted in the thread for a fresh server. But in a server where people have HP washed already it just adds onto the HP pool of already OP ranged classes.

Even for newer people that aren't super washed NL's yet, they will probably still HP wash a bit on their ranged classes, and have a much easier time reaching a state in which they won't need HB. And that's not something I'm happy about.

 

ohh only know about crusader codex

and that also very late since ems never had the chance to get it before merge

 

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If it comes with effort, it makes all the difference. The point is that to wash now currently requires a certain amount of time and effort put in, e.g. int/leeching/meso. If the new method goes a different route but requires an equivalent or more amount of effort e.g. time/meso/questing, what we do is redirect it into a different kind of washing, but without the need for int for that particular amount of HP. The entire server can already have 1k+ hp more, they just need to up base int enough to wash it and spend more time grinding. The way I envision it, is that if it's done, it's not going to be the preferred washing method for people who want to reach 15k HP, since their intlord + leeching will still be more effective to reach 15k HP, requiring an equal or less amount of "effort".

 

The point right now is that the route to extreme amounts of HP is hard, takes a lot of investment, time and not in a fun way. And that's how it should be if you want to break the game by reaching these HP levels. It shouldn't be fun or anything like that. It should be discouraged.

I'm not saying I agree with the current HP washing system either tho. It's shit. But it's the system we decided to use 3 years ago. And all this system does if you put it on top of the HP washing system is make it easier and more fun to reach 8khp+ and make HB irrelevant.

Like you said, the entire server could already do this doing more grinding with more int and waiting longer on resets. And that's what should happen if they want to reach a state where they break the game and no longer need HB. If we only had this system, it would be fine. But it just adds up.

 

Yes, this is exactly my point. I'm saying that this revised way of washing should be no less harder or require less investment, but just that instead of having to have done it at the start, you do it at a later stage, and it would be capped at a limited amount of HP.

Now, if THIS is the point that you disagree with me, then I'd just have to say we see things differently. But the reason I support this is that I believe that if done properly it wouldn't make things "easier", but just give a different path for people to take. People playing their classes shouldn't be shafted because they didn't add base int/have meso for int gears. At the same time, we shouldn't be just making HP washing easier either, because that invalidates the entire system. This is the reason why I put out 2 wordy suggestions with in depth elaborations on how I thought the slightly revised system should be.

All in all, what irritates me in this thread is that it seems people are having knee jerk reactions to what is being said without actually reading into it. This isn't everyone, and maybe I'm seeing it wrong too, but I would like it to be more of a discussion.

 

My concerns are still around having the new route completely replace normal HP washing as a system. I believe the new system should be comparable to the old in terms of meso cost and time cost. This allows the new idea to address the actual 'problem' (remember, we're supposed to be solving an actual problem) of players missing out on normal HP washing without causing the normal HP washing to become completely irrelevant. This monster book idea does not address meso cost concerns that were raised, nor is it time-gated, which means somebody can do this monster book route at the same time as normal HP washing, which is something I wanted to avoid.

I think I can address all these concerns by having the monster book system give base MP rather than an HP equip so you still need to spend NX on AP resets to HP wash. Furthermore, you should have to spend mesos on 'something' in this monster book system. This addresses the meso cost concern, the time gate concern, and as a benefit it gets everybody out from popular maps into the whole wide world AND it even gives a small amount of mutual exclusivity to normal HP washing so people can't automatically or freely do both systems.

Then, the biggest difference between the two systems is that the new monster book system is available to those who 'missed out' on the normal HP washing system and that one system requires exploration while the other leaves you as a wet noodle.

EDIT: to clarify about the meso cost concern. This is to address the HUGE investment needed in INT equips for the normal HP washing system. To balance the two systems, I believe a meso sink should be needed to create a disincentive to do both systems. You can still do both, but it becomes more practical to do one or the other.

I completely agree with you and I hope I addressed these concerns with my idea above.


EDIT 2: ALSO, the quest suggestion mentioned earlier, but with MP as a reward instead of HP, could also be implemented alongside this and have a cap to the total MP you can earn from both? (maybe at slightly less than the maximum HP needed for a fully unwashed NL/BM/MM to reach 5600 HP at level 155 as this is a common request, but this is fine-grained detail.)