Mannies, oh why mannies...

I do talk to people in game and share info when asked, but I’m not keen on spreading information on a forum where people can simply search for the best or most viable option. That’s what leads to stagnant meta maps and then we run back into the same problem.

 

This is beyond silly. For all we know, you leeched yourself for 5 mins and are now trying to pawn it off as some incredible alternative map.

And what's especially galling is that you assume I didn't ask around to see what alternatives are available. It's the same kind of arrogance and self-absorption that makes this community insufferable at times. If it's not done my way, it's not good. And if I know a better option exists, I won't share because only the worthy should be privileged. If you like solo grinding then too bad because the only right way to play is with a party.

Maplestory is honestly not worth dealing with people with some bizarre concept of what fun should be, and how best to gate-keep the game.

 

Jesus Fangblade Christ would you get a load of this entitlement? And the mental gymnastics one must go through to reach that Omega Sector- level tinfoil conspiracy.

Sure, by all means, continue to complain that the nerf to Mannequins was unjustified and damning to the warrior class. Continue to slave away at your outdated google-searched forum guide to ‘optimal’ maps while shaking your fists at the ‘elite and oppressive’ class.

Because yes of course, I spent 20 minutes to move my character to a map to fabricate a test and screenshot my EPH in order to lead you guys on a wild goose chase for a mythical map that yields x amount of experience comparable to Mannes pre-nerf.

 

21 minutes if we include censoring the location. Tests are meaningless if results cannot be reproduced by a 3rd party. Though I guess they have your igns so they can msg you. I hear you answer them if it's in gameSeemsGood

 

I think there's a lot going on here, so im just dropping my 2 cents.

There's a lot of unfairness, and also points to touch down and it's not all around the warriors themselves.

Long wall

Spoiler: Read me

The way Maplelegends is built atm is seriously damaging for a lot of classes and here's why
Mannequins were an amazing training spot for warriors , or anyone really the exp per hour ratio would be around 5m/h that's basically better than leech itself, especially for the level range it would get suggested at which was like 60-120, and yes i agree it makes me happy that people are grinding than leeching, i would've prefered that way myself

But it was also extremely broken, if i had to put it in a comparison
Leeching would be someone cooking the food, chewing it for you and mouthfeeding you
Training normally would be , you cook your own food and sit down and eat it like normal

Mannies was basically the comparison of someone cooking for you and doing the airplane for you

Because even if you ''grinded'' you didnt spend any meso other than potions, unlike leech, in fact with the valuable drops that you got, farming mesos was insane as well as exp, god it was just too good for its own good, and sadly every other map you had to choose between EXP or mesos

The mobs would basically lure themselves for you to just mash your attack key for 5-6 seconds then move to the next platform.

Other classes comparison, especially Mages and Ranged classes (Sin, Bowman, Corsairs) (at least the non washing ones)

Spoiler: Mages

Fire poison are just fucking broken, who decides that poison would get this insane, yes it existed back then , but Fire poisons would go at death master teddies which is like 2k exp not monks at china which is like 15k per mob.

''People complain if popular spot 2 good why not nerf GS2''
I admit GS2 is also one of the odd spots out there giving how is so easy to level up for like 30 levels basically
but...Slimys give no drops whatsoever, literally wand 60% and gach are the valuable things it has to offer, because it had a balance of shit level 40 drops and the rare level 80, it was profitable yes but definitely not too out there.

Spoiler: Ranged Classes

Warriors are you COMPLAINING? you had fucking 6million exp per hour at like level 60. AND You can survive!
Ranged classes could hardly go there because they would get 2 hit and die, it's risk reward maybe but come on, you are privileged
I think archers had Typhoons as the option to grind but that burns just as many pots and they drop NOTHING AT ALL
What about newtie sniping ,i've been there for an hour and i get like 3.5-4m exp per hour which is not even as good
and since you kill like 10 mobs per minute, 10 MOBS PER MINUTE that's literally no gacha drops and almost no valuable drops either, and almost that's the case for other maps. You either go full cash or full exp, so many classes had none

And they cant go Mannies cuz the 1500 damage on touch is a big oof for anyone who cant tank

You say you became unplayable? Bruh you still got ghost ship, you still got Himes, there's many options out there for you.
At least you guys are strong, you say you have to WALK? ranged classes cant even attack when put in melee, for you any map is free game.

The game at the moment is broken towards Mages (especially Clerics and FPS), before mannies nerf, you guys basically were on the unbalance list too, the game was too much on your favor.

Im not saying im happy with how things are, like Mages still need a big nerf but i dont think that's in the reach for our mods to control, since mages have been outbalanced by design itself, you guys only had a big amazing map that made you literally gods in grinding too.

Maybe only maybe we can hope that EVERY class has a good amazing map like Mannies, or that every map can be almost as good, and then only then we may have mannies back for warriors

Sincerely, a future Paladin Main

 

reminder that the game can't be seen only with grind lens and that it can't be balanced exclusively around killing some mobs. Mages are of course on an advantage and have been designed to wipe maps, it's been always like that, but it's only controversial when you don't consider other aspects of the game like bossing where classes like paladin are broken in neo tokyo, scarga and excellent in horntail.

Maps though, I do agree there needs to be more alternatives, and staff have said that there will be some map-balancing soon~

 

Yeah feel free to come /find me anytime.

I don’t care for the map changes because I’m sure the balance team did a helluva lot more thinking on the topic than you guys, so I trust their judgment. The more egregious part of this debate is that you guys are complaining about a change to a mob that used to literally walk into your swords. How much lazier can you get?

 

I mean we're talking about grinding here, and bossing isnt even a thing until 4th job, i think everyone is okay past 130.

The thing is clerics got gs 2+himes, fps got poison grinding, warriors HAD Mannies, ranged classed had voodoos at best and it was mediocre in comparison and typhoons/newties are just so unworth on this gacha drop system.

 

What experience per hour range do you think would be an acceptable solo grind for warriors in 3rd job?

How come nobody complains about poison mist being an extremely overpowered 3rd job grinding tool? Most people seem to have gotten over that narrative because they assume “that’s their job.” And yet when 4th job comes it becomes OP again lol.

 

you said big nerfs and yes while the topic is about grinding and maps, you have to understand that balancing classes have consequences in every aspect of the game, that's why I bring bossing. Changing "x" to perform better at grind could make "x" broken in bossing, or the opposite. Dropping nerf suggestions can't just be based on grinding perspective, that's all im saying.

 

I mean, it doesnt have to , they can have their strengths and weakness but they mostly shine in 4th job anyways, mages at 4th still the best at mobbing, ranged at bossing, warriors are too good also at bossing and also decent mobbing

2nd and 3rd job
Magicians have a pretty balanced grinding (honestly unsure about ILs) tho FPs need a level cap (at least 40-50 levels max)
Warriors can have mannies back, but lower some drop rates so the money making is not as OP as it was
Ranged Classes (Bowman, Gunslinger) need a better map to grind until 120, that can use their strengths
They can't use arrow rain on most things, most mobs will get closer due to the increasing HP scaling, this CANT be helped , but maybe have a map where they can snipe things without risk just like a Ghost Ship made for them, no undead mobs so priests dont use it or fire weak (is not like rangers use fire anyways) , archers can rain/erupt, bomb/iron arrow as much, still use potions to position or maybe shuffle a bit

Outlaws and Hermits can just also snipe from it but still have their strength on 1v1 rather than mobbing on those levels

Im not saying this ''hypothetical map'' has to be faster or more profitable
but at least so everyone can be just on par, just about 90% as efficient rather than 70% of the exp and like 10% of the cash income that Mannies did to warriors

 

Unless you're asking for class-exclusive maps (which would further drive apart the grind community and a core component of the game), buffing maps that benefit warriors (close combat, high density spawn) will inadvertently buff the mage class. This is why balancing the game is tricky and not all that one-dimensional.

But I hope we can all agree that auto-aggro is a stupid mechanic (to a certain degree). Getting rid of that feature was a good thing, even though it led to the downfall of a fairly overpowered map. You should not be able to get from lvl 55-70 in one day of grinding on any character, especially a class that is specialized in bossing. Although I do agree that buffing up the spawn of Mannes might be warranted considering how large the map is compared to the other 3-story maps.

I encourage you to go revisit the library and look through some of the older maps that were released while 4th job wasn't around. 3rd job was when party grinding really shined with the introduction of HS. People glaze over it like a given feature now a days, but it was literally the glue that brought the upper 3rd job levels together to strategically form ways to make training bearable in a time before leech.

For a group of people that are 1) complaining about the unbearableness of grinding 2) adamant against leeching 3) looking out for the new player base and 4) desiring to foster up a community, I find it extremely odd you guys would rather be proponents for a braindead solo-grind map like Mannes over party-based, exp/time efficient strategies for grinding. It's an intended feature of the game by design, and yet the only excuses I'm hearing stem from either unwillingness to try or inconvenience.

 

This isn't actually true at all. My very first character was a Marksman and I took him to mannies at around lvl 80~, when he could tank at least one hit. All you had to do was set auto-pot to trigger the very instant you took any damage, and you could grind safely. You had to pay attention so that when auto-pot failed you can immediately pot and not die, but training on an archer was very doable and almost as fast as a warrior. Just spam arrow rain/eruption and win. I died probably once an hour because I'd get distracted and fail to pot, but even then it was 100% worth it. And once you washed a bit and could tank 2 hits, you'd never die.

My second character was a sin and I took her to mannies at lvl 80(!). Just max avenger, put a few points into flash jump, and you could mob almost as well as an archer with a bit more effort. The exp was worse, but not by a significant amount. And once you maxed shadow partner, it was just as good as an archer. So no, ranged classes benefited almost as well as warriors did from mannies. Everyone could go there. That's why the map was so good/vital for non-leech players.

 

Then can we have the Pay2Win aspect? OP as fuck gear?
Those were all part of the 'nostalgia' of Maplestory.

100% hard disagree on Mannies being "better" for Bandits now...
Band of Thieves mobbing made it feel good, like you were playing a Warrior. Savage Blow single target was pretty mediocre even with them auto-aggro'ing.

 

The problem with this argument - which is often repeated by many people - is that AM/Bishops do not exist in isolation. If they were bad at bossing but amazing at grinding/leveling and that's it, then yes they are balanced. The problem is that mages are so good grinding that they make every other character good at grinding/leveling. The synergistic power of a mage is what makes them busted.

I can't see any other class with quite the disproportionate effect on the game. The only equivalent was if paladins reduced the amount of time it takes to kill a boss by half.

Same reason. No one cares if a F/P mage speed levels them-self to infinity and beyond. The problem is when that same mage gets to speed level other people to infinity.

 

It's too much work to toxic funny everyone's posts so I'll just drop a mega-toxic-funny instead

Warriors are fine. Gallos/Himes were always better exp than mannies, enough that at 100+ you should get a lot more than 5.4mil, probably close to 6-7.5 solo or like 7-9mil with a priest. They're worse money than mannies but still profitable because of scrolls.

Or just kill NightGhosts/Foxes for money and buy leech. Anyone can do that. Time to smash CFA30 prices some more.

I also can't believe people are advocating for partying too. Like has that ever worked out for more than an hour? Your priest has a nose-picking appointment in 20 minutes so now you have to find another. Also the Hermit went to take a shit and hasn't been back in 30 minutes. There's a reason people like solo play and it's because it's much easier to not deal with other people.

 

1) It makes no sense to centre almost 90% of the game around finding HS. I'm not at all sure why you consider that the ideal experience; it seems horrific to me since I would feel demotivated to play if I can't find a priest.

2) You're missing the point ... mannies was exp/time efficient. Or do you considering the time spent looking for a priest not wasted? If there was a map better than mannies, we'd all be there. It's not rocket science!

3) "Inconvenience" is literally the driving force behind every human invention/innovation. We harnessed the power of fire because cooking meat was more energy efficient than chowing raw meat; we created writing so we could communicate more easily; we invented the computer to automate calculations. Everything we do is about convenience. So I find it "extremely odd" that you think people enjoy inconveniencing themselves in a video game.

Also if people are complaining about grinding being unbearable, why is the first thought to make it even worse?!

 

Your inability to find a priest to HS you or have a HS mule probably shows that you have not experienced or played this game a lot.

Why should balancing be in favour of a constructed public minority or a skewed minority? Most of these pepegas get bored of the game in 3 weeks time and quit, while the rest will probably quit when they return to work after the COVID-19 pandemic dies down.

 

Not as hard as you would imagine, especially for a new player with no friends who has an empty buddy list. The point is to add people you run into who are your level. It might have been uncommon 4-5 months ago when this server was less than a third of what it is now, but if you walk through some of the old training maps, people are already there in grind parties.

 

man people in this thread are sweaty af

BRING BACK MANNEQUINS AGGRO