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An Attempt to Revive Group Attacker Grinding

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Ainz, Sep 10, 2023.

  1. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    Greetings!

    When it comes to grinding after 4th job, attackers are virtually forced to 5-6F/7F or settle for heavily subpar exp. Mages shine bright in their options for farming and grinding, easily netting over 40-50m eph in multiple maps.

    While I understand that a mage's identity in v62 maple is precisely their strength in mobbing vs bossing, I still think the current situation leaves a lot to be desired from an attacker's standpoint. Particularly from the perspective of ranged attackers.

    As such, I'd like to propose a change to ToT, transforming it from it's current state towards something closer to what LHC is (or maybe LHC will just be released soon, who knows.)

    To change the situation, I think a zone needs to be more viable for attackers than mages, which requires some/all of the following characteristics:
    - Sparse map so mage ults don't flourish as much, while leaving (ranged) attackers the room to manoeuvre around.
    - High hp mobs, again an obvious advantage to attackers.
    - Matching hp:exp ratios, perhaps not as high as shaolin, but closer.
    - Potentially elemental resist could be factored in. This would further encourage the use of elemental neutral attackers. A counter-argument here could be paladins equally suffering, but those can use lightning charge.
    - Ideally these maps would be big enough to facilitate partygrinding.

    I think Temple of Time has great potential in this regard. Of course, this should not interfere with the 999 quest (or, warrant the delay through e.g. substantially increased exp).

    I don't suggest fully nuking mage viability in ToT through elemental resist, as that would overshoot the goal. Perhaps there is a middle ground option, though.

    After writing this, I realise this is less of a fully packaged 'suggestion' and moreso a start for discourse.

    Thanks for reading!
     
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  2. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    shadower clone no jutsu
     
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  3. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Changes like this should be done with tandem with something about mages bossing capabilities though imo. Else archmages are just getting banished further as the worst class possible.
     
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  4. OP
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    Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of AM bossing buff paired with this :)
     
  5. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    What's wrong with mages having another area to play with?
     
  6. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Selkie Jr.

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    Clearly everyone else want places to be that aren't abused by them.
     
  7. Endorphinss
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    Endorphinss Mixed Golem

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    Solution:
    Lion King's Castle
     
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  8. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    What does this even mean? How are mages "abusing" ToT? If you want to grind there nothing is stopping you. There is other content for attackers as well.
     
  9. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Selkie Jr.

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    Considering this is your reply, seems you literally did not read the OP.
     
  10. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    The changes proposed in the OP do more to hurt mages than they do to make grinding on an attacker worth while.
     
  11. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Selkie Jr.

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    If that is your stance, please give examples and/or options instead of just being petulant.
     
  12. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    Ok. Here's an option: don't nerf the classes that grind but don't boss so that the classes that boss but don't grind can grind poorly. I don't have any issue with adding new content for attackers or reworking existing dead content for attackers but I don't think nerfing mages or forcing them into Ulu/Shaolin/Skeles improves the situation for attackers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2023
  13. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Selkie Jr.

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    Besides adding new content, and/or without adjusting ToT, what existing "dead content" would you recommend to make a change like the OP suggests for attackers to have a spot that isn't just leeching or 5-6F/7F?
     
  14. SusuGoreng
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    SusuGoreng Mano

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    Hello guys,as a pledged non leech hardcore grinder.i have a proposal to make,hear me out.

    What i have to propose is thing i want how hardcore grinder felt a little win in this game.

    I propose gm to introduse a "god"mob that drop 30-50% of all it drop pool when killed but wont work on mages ult.
    with a very low percentage rng to find this "god" mob.make it so low so it be more exciting
    ill be happy to grind and it will surely put a smile in my face when i killed one.
    In this way we dont have to think about mob spawn rate so a kill is a kill be it a good or bad map.

    Thank you,pls put u guys tought on this.
    Sorry my english is bad.
     
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  15. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    Leafre mobs especially Brexton/Rexton, Aqua Road mobs, Deep Ludi mobs. I've also suggested making high level versions of low level PQs like LPQ, KPQ, etc.
     
  16. OP
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    Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    I could see Leafre working, some of the maps are large enough to perhaps warrant partygrinding.
    As for Deep Ludi, I think this zone would thematically be a better fit for lvl 90-120.
    Aqua is aqua, I'm fairly impartial to the zone but I don't like it much.
    High level versions of PQs aren't my personal preference. Feels like a fairly custom change that can be avoided naturally by just making 4th job grinding viable.
     
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  17. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    If you truly want a good party grind map on maps like these then they should not have any kind of safe spots so they aren't easily abused with leechers, dealing with holy symbol might become an issue since it's too strong to pass up on.

    Alternatively or additionally the maps verticality should be increased so that mage ultimates are only able to hit on a single lane instead of clearing two lanes with a single ultimate. Something like this would easily allow for better hp/exp ratios on the mobs in ToT. Of course this would be a massive blow to mage viability on the maps.

    One could also argue that even without drastic map changes hp/exp ratios could already be improved since 5-6 exists anyway. Though I'm not sure if that would really improve party play.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2023
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  18. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Headless Horseman

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    Sus because we never agree on stuff but also +1 on making ToT a viable place outside of the cancer 7f map. It's completely dead content for grinding since nobody even goes there outside of ML1+5 meanwhile it's one of my favorite places from GMS days.

    Please make ToT great again. It's virtually unmulable because of the level requirement+extensive questline, and the 7F fishy nerf's have turned it into pure cancer for a BM.
     
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  19. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Headless Horseman

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    I mean no disrespect but IF there is a decision made to buff ToT (pls buff) please give it time to see whether or not nerf's are even required. Muling would be inefficient/inconvenient as it is because of the level requirement. I don't see how it could even compete with 5-6 leech to begin with.
     
  20. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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    man, I really liked your idea, but I would much prefer the LHC/LKC implementation similar to our neighbors (r0yals), which has exanged, some different quests to pass the map and of course, a lot of grinding
     
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