Nerf Demolition IED, Reduce Super Transform uptime, or list it as a MapleLegends feature

This mostly stems from their absurd scaling with weapon attack, as far as I understand it. Buccs are reasonably balanced in most content except for those with high WDef and anything on apple (so notably Toad and Pink Bean). To me, there's two possible solutions:
1. Nerf their utility, leaving their damage untouched. This has wild meta-changing applications depending on what utility was changed (Res not being affected by Time Leap changes... a lot)
2. Nerf their scaling, leaving their lower range damage as unaffected as possible. This dials back their power in statues in PB, while ideally leaving the rest of their kit intact. This does not address their overwhelming strength at Toad but it's lesser run content so not as big of an issue.

There's pros and cons to both. The former could break the game if not handled delicately, something that the BT has a pretty hit/miss track record with. The latter kind of takes away some incentive for gearing a truly endgame Bucc, something that's very highly incentivized currently.

 

the masterstroke that prevents buccs from being muled in PB is TL required a charged bubble.

 

? what part of active play is TL and SI? other than bubble of course?

 

TBH it's kind of the opposite. Charge TL requires Buccs to sometimes stand around and wait at 90% charge ready to full charge and TL at a moment's notice, which is very mule-like behavior. In a world where Buccs didn't have S+ tier damage, they would absolutely be fantastic mules.

 

yes, but without that requirement to charge up for TL, ppl would be bringing tl mules with viable right bird first strats

 

They'd still do that anyways. Charging isn't difficult and it means you're not losing DPM from an active attacker when you need to hold bubble.

 

To play devil's advocate, as far as I understand it taking away IED is a huge change in their DPM, even outside of PB and Toad. Actually it leaves their statue DPM in PB the least affected, ironically, since statues are both low WDef and that's where Bucc range is the highest. Taking away IED also would hurt less geared and lower level Buccs which I think is the opposite of what we'd like to see in a Bucc DPM nerf.

I'd like to see a nerf that hurts Buccs on the top end more than the low end, not the other way around.

 

That's fair, I'd be okay with an even nerf at all levels. However, removing IED definitely is not the fix if that's the case, since it heavily punishes less-geared and lower levelled players more than higher level and funded Buccs.

 

Can someone please explain as if you're explaining to a 12 year old that why some other class is having on par damage with another is a bad thing and it's absolutely filthy to see so?
In that case, buccs and NLs.
Because from my own personal point of view, the term "balance" means that each class is unique and different, despite that each one has on-par dps output. Because as a fundamental design perspective, you create an environment where people can pick something that's fun for them, optimize their playstyle and compete on a fair scale with other classes.

Because the "this class has utility so it shouldn't have the same dps as x" mindset is something that i can never get behind to. It doesn't make sense at all. People need those classes with all the buffs (SI, SE whatever) yet we deny those classes of a potential that can create a better bossing frame.

Like... ????

 

There's no one argument for it, but I can try to sum up a few.
1. Current state of Buccs makes it difficult to address high WDef fights like Toad. Because Buccs get such an insurmountable advantage over other classes (think in the realm of 20% or more increased damage, in addition to "stunlocking" the boss by disabling attacks the majority of the fight) in a fight like Toad, it becomes difficult to actually discuss potential changes to the fight. Currently Toad is not run very frequently, because it's a huge slog of a fight that's slow, boring, and not very rewarding... unless you're a Bucc.

2. Outlier classes crowd out other classes. You're comparing Buccs to NLs, but most endgame players would like to see both nerfed, not just Buccs. Because NLs and Buccs are so incredibly far ahead of other classes in the majority of endgame content, most notably in PB, it limits the ability for other classes to shine. There's really no incentive for a host to bring a class that typically does under 8m DPM when even the shittiest geared Bucc and NL can pull 8m DPM on statues, even as low as level 180. The "fair scale" you speak of currently doesn't exist, most notably in regards to Warriors (and mages if you consider them bossing classes).

3. Bucc damage has been given unfair treatment. If we were to compare SI to SE, both are "required" for certain classes to be really viable when attacking, but if we look at the changes to the users of both, it's easy to see why Buccs feel weirdly out of place. While Marksmen have had their damage boosted slightly to match that of Bowmasters, Bowmasters' damage is actually just straight up vanilla, entirely unchanged from GMS. Meanwhile, Buccs have received enormous amounts of buffs, including ST uptime, Mastery from ST, increased Bubble duration, Stance buffs, increased charge rate, faster DS cast, increased Barrage damage, and increased Demo damage. All of this combined with "intended" effects such as IED on Demo and barrel dancing have turned Buccs into monstrosities that are now dealing some of the best damage in the game. It seems unfair that Buccs, a "required" class due to both their party buff SI, utility skill Time Leap, and control/aggro skills Barrage, CSB, and Snatch, have received so much assistance from BT, to the point where they no longer merely match other classes, they have far surpassed them in most scenarios, whereas Bowmasters have largely been untouched.

My personal thoughts on the matter is that Bucc is overtuned, but not to the point where it's gamebreaking. I will happily abuse how strong Buccs are, but if left in their current state the negative effects are marginal at worst. I think Buccs and NLs could be hit with a nerf and still remain incredibly powerful, but I'd also rather see attention given to underused classes.

 

The fact that demolition creates meme magic in boss agro and is never really mentioned is one of their biggest crimes. Take 3 buccs to Toad and watch as Toad takes long breathers between his attacks. If a bucc can agro, you've just saved yourself loads of pot money as whatever boss patiently waits for the frame where his target actually exists.

 

In my opinion, there is no reason to be nerfing bucc right now. Yes they are powerfull, but how many endgame players or new players do you see rolling into the bucc class to 'abuse' this?
I bet its not much - if any at all.
Bucc is still a much sought after class in endgame content because there's just not many around.
I rather see classes that underpreform get attention than a class that's maybe a bit too overtuned but causes no harm.
Ofcourse the story would be different if everyone and their mama started rerolling into bucc, but that is not happening.

I think the question we should ask is:
Is a bucc their power even a big enough of a problem that it needs attention right now, or do other classes deserve that attention alot more?

I'd say other classes need it more.

 

Why would you want to wait for something to be abused by MORE people before taking action? Just to make more people unhappy? It would much be better to address something quick instead of waiting for things to happen and get a bigger backlash.

 

I don't disagree with you on that point, its always better to fix something beforehand than after the fact. But in this case I just don't think the problem is big enough that it needs attention at this point in time.

 

Gurk didnt. I believe that tells you everything you need to know. :^)

 

I cant agree more with this, we have a small staff / balance team and the effort should be going to classes that underperform.