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A better server!

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by Losj, Jul 29, 2015.

Do you agree with this?

  1. Agree

    37 vote(s)
    78.7%
  2. Disagree

    10 vote(s)
    21.3%
  1. OP
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    Losj
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    Losj Capt. Latanica

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    I am not sure but even if that is true we might as well stop with all the changes since it is not v62.

    Point is there needs to be a change. Making chaos scrolls and white scrolls come from end game where you need a group of players makes it so it can not be over farmed like drops from mobs. Look at scrolls like INT 60% for hat. They drop from drakes. People farm them. They still are 7mill ea because there is simply not enough. You think you can over farm a PQ what requires 2 of each class (10 total) that must be lv. 130~160ish to even stand a chance. I don't think so. I think for the first few years people would only use scrolls to improve there gear. This is so far the best solution (imo) to make these scrolls flow into the game in a controlled / hard way. If they come from mobs, I would not mind but everyone is against things being over farmed and I agree with that. This will not be possible and players who need them can get them by putting a lot of effort into it. Removing the pay wall.

    We already talked about them dropping from zakum ect. Why is this different? Because we can just start to do duo zak runs instead of doing it with a squad. This way we kill 10 zakums a day instead of 2. It takes longer but we get a ton of drops. There for I do not like the idea coming from such bosses. You can not enter or attempt this with out 10 players there for you can not cut runs and exploit it to farm tons of them.
     
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  2. Samus
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    Samus Dark Stone Golem

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    Wow this is completely uncalled for and really inaccurate. I leeched about 7 levels at skeles till 120 (alot less than most people do) and then I grinded at bosses like bigfoot or some other places till 130. I don't grind at skeles because marksmen can't grind at skeles effectively at 130. I never said I was bored of skeles, actually my point of semi-quitting was that there was nowhere stable for me to train, which totally demotivated me.
     
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  3. OP
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    Losj
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    Losj Capt. Latanica

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    Do you think this will change once ToT comes out?
     
  4. Fruc
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    Fruc Horny Mushroom

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    Not like ToT will be any better than skeles... Yay.... we get 3 new bosses to grind more mesos from.

    If white or chaos scrolls were to be given at cwkpq I'd like it if everyone in the run gets a chance. The scroll that you get would be untradeable as well. And remove the 2 of every class requirement, it would be better if it was inclusive like any pq.

    Actually I'd love to see a pq where there's no player limit, and the more players you have the faster you accomplish it. It'd be like an event for end game items for end game players. I won't mind if the pq has no daily limit too. After spending 500 hours on all those scrolls you definitely deserve them, hopefully your life is okay though.
     
  5. OP
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    Losj
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    Losj Capt. Latanica

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    The reason why this would be bad is you can cut people out to farm it easily. I keep stressing the fact that you need 2 of each class because that makes it a hard thing to do. Organizing a zakum run is already annoying so imagine how this would be. It will be obtainable by players who are motivated to do so therefor it would be a good reward.
     
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  6. Fruc
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    Fruc Horny Mushroom

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    Cut who out? Everyone can join. o.o
    What's wrong with farming? This game is all farm already.

    Why make it so difficult to set up? Just make the damn thing untradeable and it will barely touch the economy for a long time.

    People will spend months to scroll a godly equip and sell it. Well sure why not? It took at least a month to farm that doing the same thing over and over again. Eventually after a year or 2 maybe perfect equips will be common from people quitting and such.
     
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  7. OP
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    Losj
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    Losj Capt. Latanica

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    If you take away the requirement you can not do cwkpq to begin with because for every stage you have to do something for your class (warrior, thief, magician, bowman, pirate) which can only be done by them because of there skill set. People are already cutting out players to grind with because it is "less efficient". Same will happen here. Why should we take a bucc on a run when we run with 2 bishops 6 NLs and 2 Bowmasters? They wont be useful in that party since no one will benefit from speed infusion yet that group will put out most damage (bishops hit 1 because they are strong to holy there for they do not need SI).
    Making the scrolls untradable or not won't change much. I don't mind if it is or is not. People will want to upgrade there gear regardless and there for it is pointless to sell anyway.

    I want the scrolls be obtainable but I do not want it to become some easy farm fest. This is why making it difficult is a good thing.
     
  8. Fruc
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    Fruc Horny Mushroom

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    Does there have to be a 10 player limit? Does it have to cwkpq?

    How about a custom Carnival PQ for endgame players? level 30s definitely don't need Carnival PQ, LPQ is dead enough as is.
     
  9. OP
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    Losj
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    Losj Capt. Latanica

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    Because this is hard to do like you said. It will take a lot of effort to get a group together. You can enter with more then 10 players but the minimum is 10. This method makes it so that every class has to work together. The main point is. You need players therefor you need to share the loot. Same goes for our zakum runs. We sell hats. We get payed because we are useful. People can tag along if they want but will not get share because we do not need them. Now you tell me why should I take you on a run where you are useless. Exactly I should not. Therefor it is a good thing items like this are locked away behind a PQ with such heavy requirements. Everyone will have there do there part and therefor everyone will get a share in the loot.
     
  10. Kingler
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    Kingler Red Snail

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    Pardon me, as I have not been super high level in a server before. The most I have ever done is achieved 4th job and got bored of mindlessly grinding at skeles/ToT/etc., so I definitely agree with you that we need more content at level 120+.
    I wonder though: why are chaos scrolls and white scrolls a big deal for the server? When I read "(You guessed it! Scrolls.)" the obvious thing that came to mind wasn't chaos and white scrolls; it was the very apparent lack of variety of regular scrolls in the market. When I look at the market, I see a lot of the same overproduced scrolls from shrine or from common farming spots. If you try to find a more specific scroll, you might be out of luck. Surely I'm not the only one to have recognized this.
     
  11. OP
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    Losj
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    Losj Capt. Latanica

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    The reason why it is a big deal is because it is for people at high level the only thing to do and improve there gear. Every class will need to Chaos scroll items. Tops, Bottoms, Shoes, Capes and even weapons. Example: Lets say u have a claw and want to make it better. You can 30% it and get 5 att and 1 luk. If you would Chaos it you would have a chance to get 5 att and 5 luk. The point I am trying to make is that there are many items that needs to be scrolled with Chaos scrolls to improve your gear. Me personally. I have a top where 3 30% worked on so far and a bottom. I would need chaos scrolls to perfect it. It is not only for a cape to get weapon attack which most people think it is used for, it is but not the only use. The biggest issue I have with this is the Chaos and white scrolls is that they are behind a pay wall. Which is the main reason so many players disliked Maplestory. I am only looking for a way to remove the pay wall and make it obtainable for players who have put in the time and effort to reach the "end" of the game. Not trying to make it easy but at least have something to work to instead of now praying for a chaos scroll from gacha and paying 80m for a scroll.
     
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  12. Jasmine
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    Jasmine Horny Mushroom

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    To be fair, those of you who are really looking for a nostalgic Maplestory server to play and are against certain releases in content, there are many things that you can point out that aren't nostalgic in this server. For one, KSing a map is not allowed on this server whereas in regular maple, people KSed each other all the time. Another would be crush rings. Regular maplestory did not have the option of having the same sex have crush rings with each other, and you also couldn't get NX just from simply voting. HP washing was a luxury only people who could afford using their money on a game could do. Yet another would be the Kim's intention on revamping gachapon, which yet again is not MS-like not to mention the level 45 requirement to gach. Additionally, the drop rates in the game is specifically tailored to fit a small server because @Kimberly@Kimberly said they simply cannot create a server meant for thousands of people when there are ~200 who regularly play in Legends, which is understandable but Chaos Scrolls were also removed from monster drops. In my opinion, nostalgia does not mean some kind of cookie-cutter plan where everything has to be exactly like regular maple which in reality in this server at least, it's not. I personally don't find any fault in CWKPQ and having other content being released (while we're still waiting on Amoria PQ and Guild PQ, etc.) because it gives you alternatives aside from grinding, farming or sitting in the FM all day that is both fun and non-isolating for the community. Like I said earlier regarding nostalgia, this server is made to give you a chance to enjoy playing an old maplestory server with features that you couldn't have had before, while all the same making your gaming experience better with it implicated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
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  13. Autoassemble
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    Autoassemble Selkie Jr.

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    A couple of things that I have said in skype without actually posting in regards to points that are mentioned in this thread.
    To the quote above, making an un-tradable version of the scroll and giving it away in pqs would still greatly affect the market value of the same tradable version of the scroll.


    The point losj has been trying to make is that these 2 particular scrolls SHOULD be obtainable, BUT it should be very difficult. The reasoning for this is that he has spent countless hours farming to gain a substantial amount of mesos, but there litterally are nothing that he can actually spend the meso on.
    This is bad.
    If there is no way to actually improve your gear, regardless of how long you spend, people will have no reason to play, and lets be honest, we as a community and the owners/admins of this server all want to have the best possible experience to have as many people as possible playing on the server.

    Another thing I mentioned earlier was that it seems that people who dont actually care about the server enough to play it are rewarded a greater chance to gain rare items.
    I understand the idea that everyone has the same access to 5k nx per day, and we each choose how we spend that nx, but people who are playing a lot and spend time on this server will generally choose to spend their nx on other things such as ap resets or inventory expands, while people who don't really play can just amass huge amounts of nx with next to no effort and then spend 5 minutes gatching and getting rare items that are unobtainable through means other than gach.

    I am not against the fundamental principle of gachapon, BUT I believe that everything that you can get through a lottery based system should also be obtainable through hard work and perseverance, so that we can obtain these items while still spending our nx on vital things such as ap resets.

    In past live versions of maplestory, chaos scrolls have been available as a mob drop, while that option is completely removed here. Another option to funnel a small amount of these scrolls into the server is through the suggestion made by @Losj@Losj.
    Both of these options are better than what we currently have.

    TL;DR
    "Good" items (white scrolls, chaos scrolls, pacs, etc) are only available through gach and I believe that we NEED to have these items be obtainable through grinding/farming/pqing or whatever to make people stay interested in the server.
     
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  14. Fruc
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    Fruc Horny Mushroom

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    Oh I didn't care about the prices of the tradeable version of the scroll. Good point, if there was any in the market...
     
  15. mumbasa
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    mumbasa Mano

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    Don't think everyone would want to boss, that's why ToT is a good place.
    Especially for non mage classes.
    It will also get to the point where everyone is 200 and bored.
     
  16. OP
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    Losj
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    Losj Capt. Latanica

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    You hit the nail right on its head.
     
  17. Clairvoyant
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    Clairvoyant Mixed Golem Retired Staff

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    Firstly, don't get me wrong. I want to see improvement in the server, and I do have to admit that there isn't exactly a fair balance between sacrifice and reward in regards to the economy here. But here is what I have to say.

    I really don't understand why you guys keep bringing up the idea of chaos scrolls dropping from mobs. They did not drop from mobs in v62, and we're in a v62 server; this is part of what you signed up for when you came here. If chaos scrolls were implemented to drop from mobs in MapleLegends, it would only further empower bishops/farming classes which is clearly something heavily debated and disliked here in the community.

    Also, I think that NX spent on things like AP resets/inventory expansion slots is a luxury; people played just fine back then without having to spend the equivalent of hundreds of dollars on AP resets to HP wash. I believe the current established system is a fair trade; you want more HP, or a far more reliable way to use your NX? Use your NX on AP resets. But you want to gamble for the chance to get that sweet chaos scroll that just might give you 5 Att on that PAC that you also likely got from Gachapon? Use it on Gachapon. I just wanted to emphasize that HP washing seems to be this huge craze here because I always played without HP washing in past servers while having a blast. I don't think accusing people of "not actually caring about the server" is a good way of convincing people to join your cause, since I am precisely one of those people you specified: I spend my NX on Gachapon and new outfits and don't use it on things that appear to be deemed the obvious choice by the advocates of this suggestion: AP resets. And I think it is pretty obvious that I am one of the people who do care about the server. Perhaps, articulate what exactly you want to say a little more clearly next time, please.

    However, I can also sympathize with your frustration regarding farming mesos but having nothing to spend it on, and I do admit that this is a huge flaw in our current economy that is proving detrimental to the server's vitality. However, the methods that have been proposed here and the ideas supporting these respective methods are generally inapplicable.

    Summary-ish/my stance:
    Like you said, you choose what you want; do you want to HP wash, or do you want a chance at damage? Although I am unable to propose an idea that would be reasonable in order to obtain these highly desirable scrolls, just in my opinion, we will simply have to wait. There is a lot in store for us, like the new WZ. update (I wonder when that's coming, :p) and the Gach revamp (I believe Bulba is working on this..?). Maybe with the Gach revamp, those who choose to spend their NX on Gach rather than AP resets will be rewarded more graciously. Hopefully, more players will have to think about how they want to spend their NX in the future.

    I hope nobody misunderstands my intentions, and I am simplying offering my stance of these topics. Since there is a poll clearly attached that is essentially asking for feedback from the players, this is just me offering exactly what has been asked :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
  18. Autoassemble
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    Autoassemble Selkie Jr.

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    I will address your points in order.
    Firstly, I never said that chaos scrolls needed to be dropped by monsters, I merely said that they (and other items such as pac/ws) needed to be available through actually spending time on the game and putting effort in towards reaching a goal.

    Secondly, people did not "play just fine" without spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on ap resets in old maple. There is no way for a ranged attacker to actually get enough hp to survive a RNG dispel (hb) followed by a 5.5k magic damage hit without hp washing, so if you are aiming for end game as a ranged attacker you are left with the two choices of either hp washing, and being able to actually survive in ht, or spend their nx on praying to get good items from a lottery system and doing more dmg (which you wont even be able to use since you will be fucking dead)
    Perhaps "not actually caring about the server" was a poor choice of words since people choose to play this game differently. You seem to be more focused on community than really trying hard to reach end game content, and that is perfectly fine, everyone should play the game the way they enjoy, but I believe this fact is influencing your judgement in this matter since you cannot view the issue from the eyes of someone really working hard towards beating end game content.
    The fact is that if you spend countless hours farming and trying to get meso in the game, but have no way the spend it then what is the point of doing it when you have the same chance to get the items you want by simply not playing.

    To address your third point, it seems to me that you are contradicting yourself here by agreeing with the core of what my whole post was about. I do not claim that either of the ideas currently presented is the ultimate solution that will fix the issues of this server, but am merely trying to give my input on what I think could possibly improve it and I fully believe that either having mobs drop these items or implementing them into a end game pq rewards is still way better than where we are currently, hell even adding a custom npc to buy them straight up for a set price would be better than what we have now.
    I have no details about the gach revamp, so I cannot comment on it, but even with an item redistribution the problem would not be solved.
     
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  19. Clairvoyant
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    Clairvoyant Mixed Golem Retired Staff

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    Alright, I'll address your points respectively.

    Firstly, you're right; you never explicitly stated that they needed to be dropped by monsters because you probably were using it to signify that there needed to be some other way to obtain the scrolls. But just personally, I don't think that's true. I wasn't attacking you personally either, I was inquiring why people keep bringing the fact that monsters dropped chaos scrolls in later versions when it isn't the Maple we are playing right now.

    Secondly, people did play fine without spending ridiculous amounts of money. Did anyone say you had to play a ranged attacker? No. It was again, a choice. In fact, this is actually why I even made a warrior from the start. I knew I would have to worry about AP resets and HP washing and I didn't really want anything to do with it.

    Thirdly, I'm didn't mean to contradict myself. To be honest, I mainly put the point of my agreement with your post to not come across as a jerk. Just to me, the tone of your response seemed pretty defensive and you pushed my points to the extreme: did I ever say that your idea wasn't the ultimate solution? Did I expect the ultimate solution? Of course not. I just said it wasn't the correct approach, and in the case that you asked me for one, I stated that I didn't have a better.

    Also, why wouldn't an item redistribution not help with increasing the amount of these scrolls? If not just redistribution, perhaps they should increase the rates as well. I think your judgement is slightly clouded because regardless of what happens, you would "need" to spend your NX on AP resets to HP wash. I believe it should be a choice of AP resets or Gachapon, and it seems that people don't want to make that choice, but instead, want to get the easier (or at least, easier/more efficient for them) way out: spend NX on AP resets, farm mesos for scrolls. Because I didn't really want to make this choice, I made a class that doesn't have these issues. I think people just naturally expect the best of everything, which would be the highest DPS class (usually the ranged class), and high HP (which only comes through these NX sinks known as AP resets Kappa). And as things are now, you just can't get the best of everything, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing (but this seems to be quite agitating for some of us). I think I've stated this too many times now, but I think choosing between survivability and damage isn't a bad decision to be in place.

    I just want to make a disclaimer saying no hard feelings to anyone that I have comments/questions for; we're all just a part of this community and we're in it together for the better. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
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  20. Aero
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    Aero Skelosaurus

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    Looking for a GM to reply and actually fucking do / fix something so we can not have more high levels quit. #GPQPLS (If this is a high on your priority list, I can't fucking wait to see how long the others will take to be fixed! ) #Salt

    @Kimberly@Kimberly @Navi@Navi @Bulba@Bulba @Gi@Gi
     

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