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Elemental wand penalty

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by brunandes, Mar 27, 2023.

  1. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Mixed Golem

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    10:01 AM
    Not going to argue on a technicality but you get the point. I don't think there are many other weapons that make such little sense where a lower level weapon outclasses the supposed 'best available weapon' in 99% of situations.
     
  2. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Windraider

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    leetoratto
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    It will convert the 10% remaining active Bishop players into mules, effectively eliminating the class from the game as an active role.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
  3. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Windraider

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    leetoratto
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    Sky Ski
    Purple Surfboard
    Stonetooth Sword
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Mixed Golem

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    I'm not too familiar with this but does this mean the timeless/nt/dragon equivalent of these weapons are as valueless as elemental staff and timeless wands?
     
  5. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Windraider

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    Polearms, pretty much yeah.
     
  6. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Mixed Golem

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    10:01 AM
    90% are mules and the remaining 10% are only playing because they can use ele wands. Well those are assumptions there that I can't really comment and it more seems to be a personal opinion.
     
  7. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Mixed Golem

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    If the point is that higher level polearms deserve a buff I am all for it.
     
  8. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Windraider

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    leetoratto
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    Feels weird that you'd blatantly disregard the state of pretty much every boss run after Horntail but you're welcome to ignore reality if you choose.

    The fact of the matter is you're digging so deep into the weeds to justify a change that you believe is bad game design while failing to consider the fact that the end result will simply just be Archmages are completely unaffacted while the already lowest damage class in the entire game (by a huge margin) will have their already pitiful damage significantly reduced, over what you believe to be lore reasons (which is, ironically enough, a personal opinion). I'm not sure how you justify that as good game design.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 5
  9. Vowels
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    Vowels Selkie Jr.

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    11:01 PM
    untrue
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    Your suggestion is out of touch, what exactly does nerfing the damage of the weakest class in the game accomplishes other than punching down, it's nonsense.

    The problem is that you are just cherry-picking, the wand logic could be entertained in isolation but becomes harmful when examining the broader context. There's no point in lowering the incentives to play an omega muled class other than making the situation worse.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  10. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Mixed Golem

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    10:01 AM
    Not sure if you followed my above comments, but the post is not about nerfing bishops in comparison to archmages. I am in full favour of making changes to the wands to nerf archmages as well. It is about wand variety and finding a use for obsolete weapons.

    I think we have wandered too far from this and you are just fighting hard to justify that bishops have bad damage. I do not disagree, but I dont think this is a main issue, since like you said bishops are already pathetic at damage. Would you still disagree if the proposal includes a buff to bishop skills such that they do better damage using timeless wands? I.e. buff neutral wands' tma and impose ele wand penanty at the same time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Mixed Golem

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    10:01 AM
    Just to be clear, when you mean weakest it means single target right? Bishops are being muled for some bosses because of this and it is unlikely to be any different unless there are substantial buffs. Not that this proposal will make any difference in this regard.

    But let's not pretend that bishop is just bad at everyyhing. Afaik genesis is still an incredible skill. Even if slightly, nerfed, it is still a better mobbing skill than any non-mage class, which isn't bad for a 'mule' class. So I do not think the incentive to level a bishop really decreases that much.
     
  12. Edann
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    Edann Pac Pinky Retired Staff

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    5:01 AM
    Edann
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    iies has spoken
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  13. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Windraider

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    With your proposed changes, Bishops would not be able to 1-hit Skeles with Ele Wands until around 1530 TMA, meaning even current level 200 Bishops with average gear and MW20 would no longer be able to sell Skeles leech without significant investment into alternative gear.

    This is not a slight nerf by any means.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Mixed Golem

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    Read my previous reply to you. Again, this is not a campaign to nerf bishops to death, its about making more wands usable and making ele wands serve the purpose game developers intended. It is not even my idea, Neckson literally made the change in prebb maplestory.

    I have not done the numbers like you, but surely other neutral wand stats or genesis attack can be tweaked to nullify this 'hard nerf' you are so worried about.
     
  15. Vowels
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    Vowels Selkie Jr.

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    You can't be serious if you argument is 'just make it worse because it won't matter anyway'. It totally will and it would mostly screw the most dedicated, do I need to tell you about dark wyverns.

    Why is mobbing brought up, when most of us have problems with the implications in bossing. The incentives decrease because some bossing goals become unachievable or unnecessarily hard.

    Nerf all mages for the sake of wand diversity? I think your mage experience might be based on killing mobs only because I don't understand how a bossing mage would even propose this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  16. OP
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    brunandes Mixed Golem

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    Yea you are right, I am not a bossing mage. But should any change be made only in consideration of the few endgame bosses? I reckon a huge chunk of the playerbase are casuals like me who might not sniff endgame bosses. It seems that any suggestion regarding improving this part of gameplay are just being scoffed at.

    If game balance only revolves around 1 or 2 bosses, frankly I don't think any change will make a noticeable impact. There will always be classes better or worse since the comparison is so limited in scope.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Dephyfl
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    Dephyfl Brown Teddy

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    10:01 AM
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    Maybe try to understand the game at an end-game context and you'll understand how ridiculous you sound.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  18. Ferluci
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    Ferluci Skelosaurus Retired Staff

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    Dont listen to the elitist. Change is good.
    They salty cause its negative for them
     
  19. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Windraider

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    Remove Gobis
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Ferluci
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    Ferluci Skelosaurus Retired Staff

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    watch ur tongue boy
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1

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