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Elemental wand penalty

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by brunandes, Mar 27, 2023.

  1. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    7:47 PM
    I believe at some point Neckson introduced the damage penalty for mages using the wrong element. I feel that it makes so much sense and should be implemented here as well.
    E.g.
    - Fire/poison attacks should get a reduction from wands 7/8
    - Ice/lightning attacks should get a reduction from wands 5/6
    - Holy attacks should be reduced by all elemental wands
    - Neutral attacks like mclaw/bigbang should be unaffected

    Perhaps we could then have some wand diversity and some utility for actual luk mage wands since they would be better for bishops. Thoughts?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 10
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    leetoratto
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    Isn't this just a Bishop nerf?
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  3. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Would call it a bug fix.
     
  4. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    But it's not a bug.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    7:47 PM
    Depends on Neckson's original intention. The way I see it, elemental wands are always meant for elemental mages, hence they patched it out later.

    If bishops are crying unfair, just add level appropriate luk requirement to all ele wands so that archmages don't have this specific benefit. Bishops should not have a free choice using among all ELEMENTAL wands.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    you can always pretend that is the case by adding luk to your mages
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    2:47 PM
    Edann
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    Did you check before writing this? Because they are all punished except holy
    Also what does this even accomplish except screwing over bishops
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  8. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    What do you mean all punished?
     
  9. Edann
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    Edann Slimy Retired Staff

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    All elemental attacks (except ifrit / elquines) are already punished for using the wrong wand except holy
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  10. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    7:47 PM
    Choosing to be suboptimal isn't anagolous to addressing game design flaw. Having such high level lukless equipment that completely invalidates all other mage weapons does not exactly seem like good design.
     
  11. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    I'm actually not aware of this! Doesn't that bring up a stronger case on why holy is exempted?
     
  12. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Didn't realize I hadn't included it in my formula post so I just edited in, but here are the numbers if you're interested

    Code:
    Note: When using other elemental skills Ele Wand/Staff has a damage penalty of -25%. This penalty does not apply to Bishop skills in v62 or summons (eg. Ifrit and Elquines).
    
    (Eg) Using Blizzard (ice) with a Ele Wand 7 (ice)
    = Base damage * 1.25
    
    (Eg) Using Blizzard (ice) with a Ele Wand 5 (fire)
    = Base damage * 0.75
    
    (Eg) Using Genesis with a Ele Wand 5 (fire)
    = Base damage * 1
     
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  13. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    you do know the best weapon for mages is actually staff 5/6 and going timeless armors right
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    I don't claim to have done the calculations, but what I have heard is that this is only true with tremendous investment of investment to be slightly better than a pure int mage.

    You might be technically correct, but it isn't is still true that the lukless ele wand is pretty game breaking? How many people actually goes the route you described? I don't think other jobs have the dilemma of choosing between a lvl 64 maple weapon and a lvl 100+ weapon.
     
  15. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Thanks for sharing this! This narrows the scope of my suggestion since examples 1,2 and 4 are already game features.

    Anyway I know that this suggestion is unlikely to be implemented since maybe 90% of the server have their own bishop.

    I am just curious what are some actual arguments for bishops having the penalty exemption from a lore or balance perspective, other than 'the nerf was implemented after v62'.
     
  16. DrChuchu
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    DrChuchu Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Lore - bishops get full elemental resistance, hence they are attuned to all of the elements.

    Balance - Not having a 1.25x multiplier to damage is the nerf. FP/IL get greater benefit to using their respective wands. Bishop damage is already a concern for people such that many are asking for buffs as to encourage actively playing a bishop.

    Also I think secondary elements get something like 1.1x?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. HimeHam
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    HimeHam Pac Pinky

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    give us a holy ele wand
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    But how does this affect NLs?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  19. OP
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    brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    Is bishop damage stopping people ftom actively playing? Isn't bishop the most populated class above 180?
     
  20. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Horntail

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    if it happen, the beauty weapon from cwk deserve a buff, and the ddstaff will be usefull
     

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