1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

Elemental wand penalty

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by brunandes, Mar 27, 2023.

  1. Nise
    Offline

    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

    2,059
    693
    500
    Jul 5, 2017
    Male
    Korea
    4:05 PM
    NoraONE
    Corsair
    189
    Sweetdreams
    Bishop is indeed the most populated class, accounting for a bit less than 25% of the characters above 180. The next most populated would be NLs at around 16%.
     
  2. Zorele
    Offline

    Zorele Slimy

    240
    41
    225
    Jan 12, 2018
    Male
    3:05 AM
    Zorele
    Cleric
    34
    From a balance standpoint the only thing this change would accomplish is limiting the functions bishops have (mainly leeching) . I'm lazy to pull out numbers but bishops would either be required to go for luk builds (and forced to spend an infinite amount of extra meso) or take it up the ass and take the damage reduction (via wand or using an inferior weapon) and be required to level up and invest more meso to do their usual functions. Either way fps and ils would become the obvious choice to sell leech and the functions of bishops get further shoved into the muling department.

    Lore wise; You can make any sense out of it if you desire. Simply using their "holy" status is a good enough excuse to give them that exclusive benefit.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. OP
    OP
    brunandes
    Offline

    brunandes Windraider

    466
    38
    296
    Aug 29, 2021
    3:05 PM
    If your main argument is that bishops need to reach higher levels to sell leech, wouldn't you consider the half mp cost compared to AM a worthwhile exchange?

    I'm not too sure about muling, but seems having useful skills to be muled is already a good reason to level a bishop? AM can't even be muled for anything.
     
  4. Ainz
    Offline

    Ainz Zakum

    1,692
    1,093
    490
    May 2, 2015
    Male
    Netherlands
    9:05 AM
    So many I keep forgetting
    0
    I would consider bishops notably lower damage plenty of tradeoff for their lower mp cost :') Yes they can sell skele because of elemental resist, but they fall off very harshly compared to AMs in virtually all non-holy-weak maps.
     
  5. Zorele
    Offline

    Zorele Slimy

    240
    41
    225
    Jan 12, 2018
    Male
    3:05 AM
    Zorele
    Cleric
    34
    There are other things that offset the MP cost for example petris being better exp -> more money -> more or less similar profit even if pot costs are higher for bishops. If you also take into account the fact that A/Ms are better at 5/6 leech and earn more meso there as well you have yourself another reason. If you wish to include easier multimaging, being able to be effective at more maps fwiw and other small things then you can clearly see some of the benefits A/M would have outright.

    I can't really agree with the sentimient that any class being reduced to mostly a mule is fine and i wouldnt call that that's a benefit over another class. That just outright sounds like terrible game design.
     
  6. Kiaraaa
    Offline

    Kiaraaa Chronos

    81
    20
    98
    Apr 5, 2018
    Female
    3:05 PM
    Kiaraaa
    Bishop
    200
    Pasta
    Do take note that most bishop chars above 180 are MULES. There ain't many Bishop mains in this server. Stop invalidating Bishop Mains.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  7. OP
    OP
    brunandes
    Offline

    brunandes Windraider

    466
    38
    296
    Aug 29, 2021
    3:05 PM
    I really don't get this argument tbh. If you are getting a pure mule above 180 you must really enjoy this class a lot. Is the low damage really holding it back?
     
  8. OP
    OP
    brunandes
    Offline

    brunandes Windraider

    466
    38
    296
    Aug 29, 2021
    3:05 PM
    And having all luk mage gear being obsolete is good game design?
    Anyway I not want to be caught up in the argument of whether archmage or bishop is better since it is not the gist of my initial suggestion. Like I have mentioned in this thread, if the fear is that bishop is nerfed too hard compare to AM, just add luk requirement to ele wands to nerf AM at the same time.
    I just think that elemental wands should be used by archmages as the game intended and bishops should be using the neutral mage weapons.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
    • Like Like x 1
  9. beegoratto
    Online

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,341
    376
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    12:05 AM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    You get it above 180 because it’s necessary. Nobody enjoys bringing an extra character to a fight just to press Holy Symbol or Holy Shield, but it’s worth the effort for the extra EXP/being able to clear Pink Bean.

    Yes, the low damage is absolutely holding it back.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. beegoratto
    Online

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,341
    376
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    12:05 AM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    We have already established in this very thread that LUK mage has a higher TMA potential than INT mage.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  11. OP
    OP
    brunandes
    Offline

    brunandes Windraider

    466
    38
    296
    Aug 29, 2021
    3:05 PM
    Is being muled in pink bean the only defining quality that makes bishop a mule? Are there any situations like bosses and grinding that bishops are not a mule? I find it hard to believe that 25% of all characters above 180 are just mules purely for holy symbol purposes.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    brunandes
    Offline

    brunandes Windraider

    466
    38
    296
    Aug 29, 2021
    3:05 PM
    Potential is potential. Just using the best case scenario is not really a good representation of the situation. If this was really viable, those 16x ele staffs would not be npc fodder while 13x wands cost 50million.
    Also, if the argument is that luk gear is better, making ele wands unavailable to bishops isn't really a nerf after all isn't it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
  13. Zorele
    Offline

    Zorele Slimy

    240
    41
    225
    Jan 12, 2018
    Male
    3:05 AM
    Zorele
    Cleric
    34
    I assure you the amount of game design flaws and nonsensical stuff present in prebb maple is very vast. At the end of the day, it being the way it is simple decreases the barrier of entry. Since the function of mages is somewhat limited i personally think the gear meta of mages is okay. If someone had to lvl a mage to 180, and invest billions into funding a mage to leech and accomplish their current functions, the barrier of entry into endgame for new players would be crazy high which i feel is more problematic than your ideal scenario.

    I agree with your statement that it "doesn't make sense" but this particular change wouldn't really solve much of anything and would come with its own set of problems. There are other things that don't make sense that do present with a real issue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
  14. OP
    OP
    brunandes
    Offline

    brunandes Windraider

    466
    38
    296
    Aug 29, 2021
    3:05 PM
    I get your point, the status quo is broken but works. But I disagree with the sentiment that nothing should be done against it.

    The number of times I have seen new mages being 'corrected' into reseting their luk into int is simply disheartening and unnostalgic. Having some use for those mage weapons should be a point of improvement for this server.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. beegoratto
    Online

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,341
    376
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    12:05 AM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    So you’re making the argument that something that has a viable alternative through the use of trade-offs is obselete? What about things that are actually obselete and never viable in any scenario like Night Raven’s Claw for dexless NLs? Or lower level items like Maple weapons? Why is it weird that something has to have trade offs to be better instead of, you know, always better?
     
  16. beegoratto
    Online

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,341
    376
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    12:05 AM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    A mule is a character that sits in the corner not being actively played or attacking.

    thus, 90% of Bishops.
     
  17. Zorele
    Offline

    Zorele Slimy

    240
    41
    225
    Jan 12, 2018
    Male
    3:05 AM
    Zorele
    Cleric
    34
    The current issue with bishops is what low value they provide by being active vs being muled. In the GRAND majority of scenarios simply by pressing HS, Holy shield and the ocasional ress you get a bang for your buck from a bishop. I think the only scenario you can place a bishop as being more optimal while being active in at a mostly undeniable level would be HT. For the rest of the content either having an active bishop is completely subpar or at the best up for disscussion as to what they provide. This already presents itself as a big issue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. OP
    OP
    brunandes
    Offline

    brunandes Windraider

    466
    38
    296
    Aug 29, 2021
    3:05 PM
    Night raven claw and maple weapons are lower level weapons. They get naturally replaced by higher level weapons.
    Elemental staff are lvl 16x and are supposed to be better than a lower level weapon.
     
  19. beegoratto
    Online

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,341
    376
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    12:05 AM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    Point remains that you cannot call them obsolete when they are situationally better.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    brunandes
    Offline

    brunandes Windraider

    466
    38
    296
    Aug 29, 2021
    3:05 PM
    Does my suggestion change this role? If you are looking for angel ray buffs that could be a different suggestion and discussion.
     

Share This Page