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Fixing the economy

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by brethis, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. brethis
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    brethis Orange Mushroom

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    Note: Even if this post expresses an opinion, evidence is exposed to subtract subjectivity from the topic.

    After having played this server for several months (I started playing in the middle of the anniversary events), I have noticed a lot of fluctuations, whether they have been in terms of players, prices or items. That is completely normal because there are periods of the year during which more people play (i.e. summer), and the server has made changes to adapt to these variations.

    Like I said, with the summer break, the server gained a lot of players, and the market was alive and kicking. Most of the prices dropped and the economy was, overall, better. The Gachapon changes due to the increase in players made sense, even if a lot of people did not agree with them. Now, summer is about to end and the state of the economy is, from my point of view, close to trashy. Some examples are presented as follows:

    - For the last 5 days, I have been using Owls of Minerva to find scrolls for Topwear for both STR and LUK 70%. Most of the time, my owl would not even be used because there were LITERALLY NONE. You can try it right now, go ahead.

    - Most of the scrolls have increased or even doubled in price (see Claw for Attack 30% or all of the INT 30% scrolls).

    Even if I find this logical because less people means less items, I think it is beyond pathetic that one cannot find a single scroll of a particular type.

    Wouldn’t it make sense, therefore, to give Gachapon a little buff to go back to what one would call ‘normal operating mode’?. Or even, I do not know, increase a little bit the drop rate of Hunting Gachapon. Not all the rates should be buffed though, I do not want to get 2 WS and 1 Chaos in 70 Gachapons, but a little higher number of useful scrolls, that is.

    The way I see it right now is that the server is unfortunately going to lose players due to the summer break ending, and newcomer players will have it really hard to get money:

    - If I am a new player in this server, by the time I reach level 45 I will have collected quite a nice amount of NX, and my expectations on getting money with Gachapon will be, let’s say, mid-to-high. With the current situation of Gachapon, it is actually possible that I get NOTHING (by nothing I mean 5-10m using 70 gachas, which has happened to me more than once). And it is more than probable that I will quit the server because of the demotivation that I will get from this happening to me.

    So, long story short, the earlier Gachapon changes made sense as much as new ones would make it now. The current situation of the economy is really fragile, and I do not thing it is good for the server.

    Like Dehaka does, I think it is time to adapt.

    Sorry for the long post, but I believe it is a complicated and controversial topic, and people who care about it will not mind losing 3 minutes giving it a thorough read.

    Also feel free to discuss and correct me if I am wrong with anything of the aforementioned topics.

    [​IMG]

    tl;dr: Players increased, Gachapon got nerfed (makes sense). Players are and will decrease, Gachapon should get buffed. The current state of the economy is not healthy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  2. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    In my honest opinion, the economy for basic scrolls will fix itself.
    It's not the same as before when we had 30-40 player base, but we extend to 700-900 players now.
    Some scrolls may decrease in availability depending on whether players with a decent meso pool are looking for specific scrolls.
    Prices will always fluctuate depending on demand, and if merchants ever cut the supply out.
    7m for a claw 30% is nothing compared to the 15-20m I once payed for.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  3. Phooey
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    Phooey Mixed Golem

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    Let's hope that day never comes again ;-;
     
  4. Franco
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    Franco Wolfspider

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    The reason these scrolls are rising back up in price isn't only the gach nerf (I believe that's not even the major reason) but that most of the players that joined during the rapid growth of the playerbase are just now reaching the point where they themselves want to scroll their own items. So less scrolls are being sold and more are being bought, thus you have more demand and less supply which means higher prices.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
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  5. Rod
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    Rod Selkie Jr.

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    I've seen many yellow announcements lately of people getting White Scrolls and Chaos Scrolls, so it seems to be balanced at the moment. It's also just a matter of luck, I've used more than 200 Gacha tickets and I never got any yellow announcement either, not for a PAC, CS, WS, ele wand, nothing. But I was also unlucky to do gacha at the exact time they nerfed it and I wasn't aware of it... already got used to be unlucky around here, also wasted 150k NX to get Evan hair and that didn't go so well either. Lol
    My friend recently got a chaos scroll from just 35 tickets after the gachapon rates been buffed, so it seems to be ok at the moment, however a good solution could be adding every scroll to be findable from monsters and not just some from monsters and others from gacha, this way people could go farm them when they can't find them for sale on the market.

    I do agree with what you said though, seems like the game is losing players, but I honestly believe that has something to do with the recent instabilities.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. thugric
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    thugric Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    What does dehaka have to do with this post though
     
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  7. Piety
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    Piety (ㆆᴗㆆ)/ Retired Staff

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    In agreement with FrancoFranco here; this is pretty much what a lot of us thought would happen when the prices took a nose-dive.
    There was an insane amount of new players on the server. For example, OA INT 10% dropped to like 700k due to the market being completely flooded by KPQers. Scroll prices dropped VERY low (read: too low) in general, so I think it's actually healthy to have the prices slowly be rising back. Tons of people reaching high levels and trying to scroll gear, so it's not abnormal to see certain scrolls be completely dried out since people are Owling and buying out whatever is available.

    You say new players won't have any chances, but taking my above example, newbies getting OA INT 10%s from KPQ can sell them for 1.5m right now. Also, any decent scroll they get from a Hunting ticket (or a NX ticket if they're lucky) will set them for 30 levels.

    Nah, that's just everyone going back to school. It's the September effect; every game drops a huge chunk of their players who become too busy to play. People will come back for the December Holidays :p
     
  8. Zeretius
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    Zeretius Windraider

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    This same topic has come up like 2 years ago now, they implemented hunting gach to try and fix this. IMO i don't think gach needs a buff.

    + all the new players that joined were desperate for mesos, now they're high level and need the scrolls. Supply and demand.
     
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  9. RadioPhobic
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    RadioPhobic Brown Teddy

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    I have to agree with Marwyn, the economy is struggling badly, and will probably get worse with the upcoming playerbase drop. But I find myself lurking this and other posts, seeing people just accepting the fact that the playerbase is dropping due to the "summer ending".
    This may be true in part, however, tons of people are quitting due to the lack of motivation or incentives given to the players. It honestly is kind of depressing that being a new player, you can't even afford a Kandayo if you're a sin. That's why people get their hopes up on the infamous level 45 huge gacha run, and most of the times they feel let down after it, since they literally get NOTHING.
    After reading some replies on this post, I've come to think that some people are just "fine" with new players giving up, and I think that's not the right attitude to have, specially if we're talking about GROWING as a server.
    Plus, to those who have been playing for a while, how could having more supply hurt us? Having more people join the server or simply not quit it energizes the free market and brings new opportunities to already established players (such as scrolling better gear, equipping other characters, etc.)

    MORE SCROLLS = CHEAPER PRICES MORE ACCESSIBLE TO NEWCOMERS = LESS PLAYERBASE DROP = EASIER TO RETAIN PLAYERS.

    Back when most of us played GMS during 2007-2010, you used to find ANY scroll you needed throughout the FM, didn't even have to owl since the supply was huge (and so was the playerbase). Also, gacha felt somewhat exciting or exclusive, while it feels like a major waste of NX here.
    IMO, the server was at it's best throughout this June-July when massive amounts of gacha were used, as it brought vitality to the FM and the possibility for new players to gear up properly.

    Now some of you will probably disagree with me, but I think that we can't deny the fact that newcomers have a really hard time keeping up with the server's INFLATED economy.

    I would clarify that I'm not talking about buffing the WS, CS, PAC or PGC drop rates, but increasing the chances to obtain a scroll.
     
  10. Hiyo
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    Hiyo Headless Horseman Retired Staff

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    Personally, I wouldnt compare the playerbase of GMS to a private server, GMS is LEAGUES above and is massively populated and pay 2 win so yeah. And theres more ways than just gacha to make money or lvl up, it helps but i dont think people should always rely on gachapon. And the rates are not that bad imo.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Piety
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    Piety (ㆆᴗㆆ)/ Retired Staff

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    I actually think it's the other way around; higher scroll prices makes it easier for newer players. If you're waiting on 45 and putting all your bets on that NX Gach to afford your Kandayo, then you're doing it wrong. In general, people felt pretty strongly against Pay2win (obviously) or Vote2win, which is why the Cash Shop Gach is generally pretty mediocre; you should only buy it once you have absolutely everything you need from the cash shop. Hunting Gachapon removes most of the junk and have a very good chance of giving valuables.

    There are so many ways to make money on the server at the moment; it just requires some effort and not just waiting for your 5 daily tickets and praying to get lucky. When the scrolls were at their lowest, people didn't even bother farming places such as Drakes for Helmet Int 60%s or Master Chronos for Helmet Dex 60%s anymore due to the prices being at a ridiculous ~3.5m at it's lowest. Right now, a level 45-50 can farm Drakes until a scroll drops and pretty much straight up afford their Kandayo, since prices have been creeping back up due to noone farming them anymore.
    When I used to run my Scroll Price Guide, people were actually frustrated to get a great scroll, but that ended up being worth like 30% of what it was worth a month prior due to the market being absolutely flooded.

    In the end, a lot of people feel pretty strongly against making the server easier in general; which is why suggestions like these get a lot of backlash. This is meant to be a v62 experience; making money generally required time and effort unless you paid and prayed to the Gachapon gods.

    Just my personal opinion on the current economy don't crucify me ;w;
     
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  12. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    General thought of Gachapon:
    I've stated a lot of times in past, and I am going state it again; you shouldn't see Gachapon as your main income. The reason why Gachapon is trash here is simply because I dislike the whole vote2win concept. Voting shouldn't give you the most money, since its the easiest thing to do out of everything. Gachapon in GMS was pay2win and normal users never had access to it. Here its a free bonus, but this free bonus doesn't mean that you should get all your money from Gachapon and no longer need to grind anymore at all, etc. Likewise when someone goes inactive and comes back he shouldn't get more money than an active grinder would get. If anything thats demotivating for the person active playing, when someone voting every 24 hours and not doing anything else for 3 months gets more.

    Gachapon 'nerf':
    I prefer the 'Gachapon nerf' to be called 'Gachapon changes' because Legendary rates is actually higher now than it was before the changes (yes , also for Vote Cash Gachapon), but the equips from Legendaries were slightly balanced, so Chaos/Whites appear more often and equips slightly less because there's 4 equips and only 2 scrolls, while previously it was all same chance (thus equips more, since there's 4). Its however clear that the demand for everything in Legendary is still very high, so it won't be reduced anytime soon, since I think Chaos/White chances are now pretty good, and equips are doing okay, though I've been noticing they are slowly getting less as well, so might toss up the chance between chaos/white and them a bit again. Any actual feedback about current state of Legendaries are welcome. I am still active checking the Gachapon logs on how much the Legendaries are dropping.

    Lack of specific scrolls (non Legendary):
    I can add here that when you receive a regular scroll right now its all the exact same chance which one you get, so we have no bias system setup if you get a crappy scroll or a good one. Unfortunately when there's so many scrolls available its also pretty difficult for us to even create such thing (to favor scrolls in more demand...)

    However, if you were to give me now a small list of scrolls from Gachapon (non Legendary) lacking especially, which ones would it be?
     
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  13. Rod
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    Rod Selkie Jr.

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    Scroll for Shield for Magic Attack 60% please, and 10% if they ever existed.
     
  14. Piety
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    Piety (ㆆᴗㆆ)/ Retired Staff

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    These are not available; they are in Ninja Castle which isn't out yet.
     
  15. Rod
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    Rod Selkie Jr.

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    I thought with lacking, Kimberly meant scrolls that haven't been added to the game yet.
     
  16. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    No. I meant scrolls in-game that are lacking in the current market/economy (generally those that are stuck in Gachapon).
     
  17. Rod
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    Rod Selkie Jr.

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    Ok, scroll for helmet for int 60%, rarely see someone selling one of those.
     
  18. deribou
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    deribou Skelegon

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    i mean technically you can farm helm int 60 they drop from drakes; it's less of an issue than other scrolls that are gachapon only (can't really think of any rn but examples would be like overall str 30 which are gachapon exclusive; if i bought them all out today in FM there would be very little new supply for at least a while)
     
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  19. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    You can farm these however.
     
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  20. OP
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    brethis
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    brethis Orange Mushroom

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    I have read all the answers and the points you all give make sense. This is a very subjective topic and, like I said, controversial.
    The reason for this is not because I cannot make money in the FM or whatever selfish aim can be attributed to it, it is because I care about the server and while it is inevitably going to lose people for the 'back to school' phenomenon, it would be sad to lose even more for issues like this one.

    Having seen most of you disagree I cannot give more insight on it as I understand not much will be done (for a start Kim suggests making a list with some information about the lacking scrolls, but apart from that everyone seems to think the situation is fine), but sitting back is definitely not the answer.

    Is it logical that less items are there because of less players? Yes.
    Is it good, however, that if I want an item I have to scroll it myself because there are no decent (non super duper godly unaffordable) scrolled items in the FM? Pretty much self-explanatory.

    But yes, there is also the possibility that I am completely wrong and blind and the server will magically fix itself. I understand that is the option we have chosen.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
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