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Make HP Washing Optional

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by mettzi, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    In end of the day like I've mentioned before we are an Old School MapleStory server, with the flaws (on most part) included.

    There's some servers that tried out solutions, yes, but I don't like them

    1) Increasing overal HP/MP gain from x job

    The thing people need keep in mind that applying this would mean <everyone> gets it. Right now washing is an optional road to take, and if we were to apply this to everyone it would mean by default the game gets easier. There's no deny to this. Right now HORNTAIL is the only boss that 'requires' you to wash to survive without HB. If we were to apply this just for 1 boss, it means that every single different aspect of the game INCLUDING Horntail gets easier. Yes, I know Rien tried it, yes I know Saga has their ways... and I don't like the approach of either.

    Besides that its incredible risky and difficult to balance this properly without making it either not enough or too much. Furthermore when this is forced it means that people have no option anymore to play the actual authentic game, which defeats the purpose of our server.

    2) Make Horntail weaker so washing is no longer a 'requirement'

    This while only applying for Horntail is kind of same issues as #1. It makes Horntail by default easier and thus less of an accomplish to do. Horntail already have no mass seduce which quite frankly makes Horntail already much easier than it should be, and making Horntail even weaker makes people even have a faster time doing it. Horntail is end game, so it should be difficult to defeat it.

    3) The other stuff

    Other stuff was mostly rings that give HP, and few other things. For those suggestions I currently have no full opinion, but even such things already reaches the custom side of the server, so stuff like that need very careful time on deciding.
     
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  2. Awliya
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    Awliya King Slime

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    Solution seems pretty simple to me.

    [​IMG]

    Give each class enough +mp per level to wash once every other level

    If you wanna autismo out 30k NL's you still can
    Casual players will always have enough excess MP to wash
    Washed players will probably not complain too hard because who the fuck cares about some dude having more MP than you

    Also because you will always have that excess MP, you can just sit on it and grind out AP resets via NX voting/events on your own time

    Or you could just reduce the minimum MP required so that people without INT gear or base INT can still wash at the cost of having lower MP
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  3. OP
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    mettzi
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    mettzi Pac Pinky

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    Thanks the for reply, Kimberly. Much appreciated

    I agree with your first point. It wouldn't just make Horntail survivable, it would make everything much more survivable. I don't think this should be implemented either.

    About your second point, what do you think about the players, like me, who think leveling and gearing should be the measure of progress, not HP washing? The main problem with HP washing is that, if you don't do it, it's an irreversible mistake. Just look at the stories in this thread. People make characters and don't know about HP washing, so they might resort to pumping a bunch of base INT and hindering their damage. In some cases, they require leeching to level in a reasonable time. Not very fun. They also might abandon their character to make a bishop for funding. Most of the time not ever reaching bishop, and burning out before then.

    Even for players who know about HP washing and have the ability to do it, what does it add to the game? I think it's a very frustrating game mechanic and kills the immersion.

    Another issue is that there's no spontaneity in character creation. You can't just join the server and create your favorite class without having to plan for HP washing. An exploit.

    Most games, if you don't meet the requirements for a boss, allow you to improve your character to reach that point. With HP washing, if you're too late to the game, you're screwed. It's something you have to start planning from level 1.

    Regarding HP rings, that'd essentially have the same problem as your first point. It would give you more HP for everything in the game. I suppose you could make it rare. Maybe HP ring tier 1 drops from Zak, Scar/Targa, Krexel, etc. Tier 2 drops from Horntail. That's even more custom than my suggestion though. Anyways, that's for a different thread.

    I really think this suggestion would benefit the server. I'm all for difficulty, and I don't see this suggestion as making the game easier. Just removing a very frustrating mechanic that shouldn't have been in original Maplestory anyways. Pumping INT and leeching isn't difficult, just boring. Neckson has been known to make bad game design decisions. We've made skill changes on Legends, so what's so wrong about changing HP washing?

    EDIT: Also I think the post by debaterdebater really sums up the new player experience in regards to HP washing. He also makes some good points.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  4. Zebezian
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    Zebezian Master Chronos Retired Staff

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    This post hits the nail square on the head.

    This server is the first one where I've made a character that doesn't need to wash for HP.

    Yet, seeing posts like the one I quoted (among others ... and just having to deal with washing in the first place) gets me a little fired up. It shocks me that at least something significant (or anything at all?) hasn't been done to mitigate the issue that is HP washing. I can only wonder how many other stories like debater's have happened silently in this server. We will never know for sure, because all of those players--many of whom would likely be a great addition to this community--have left for another server which is far more friendly or proactive on this issue. However, just basing my opinion on the amount of discussion this topic generates, I can speak with confidence when I say that debater's story is hardly unique.

    The longer the HP washing mechanic sits as it is, the harder it will be to address down the road because players' characters will be more developed, giving them fewer options should something change. This is especially true if MapleLegends wants to add bosses such as Castellan (which is currently disabled for whatever reason), or perhaps Pink Bean, among other possibilities. Secondly, as it was already touched upon, it will continue to drive away otherwise great players from the community.

    I recognize that changes to core mechanics around HP/MP are extremely unlikely, and so I'm not actually expecting something so drastic to change here anytime soon, if at all. However, I do think there are some things which can be done to make the situation more palatable until a better alternative could be found. These changes have all been suggested, but I think they are worth reiterating.

    1. Reduce the price of Resets. This is probably the easiest and most palatable change to make, and it is one I am fond of realistically pushing at this point. Not only does this cut down on potentially ridiculous amounts of wait-time to accrue the NX necessary to wash, but the NX saved from the discounts allows players to still invest some in gachapon to obtain some semi-decent equipment while they play with a gimpy character. Also, that saved NX allows them to have some fun with outfits/effects, etc., which is the whole point of playing. Obviously, the specific repricing of a reset would have to be discussed, which is why I am not throwing out any numbers.If you are a post-washing player who would be angered by an NX discount, I would ask you to not only try to see this from the point of view of trying to keep the server healthy and fun in the long-term for a diverse player base, but also ask yourself whether you would still raise your objection if you were a new player who just joined after this discount was already enacted.
    2. Reduce (X) Boss Damage. The reason I suggest this one next is because it does demand some more tinkering, but it isn't as serious as some of the next suggestions. It only affects that monster. If bosses stronger than HT are added in later, this will be an increasingly necessary option if other changes aren't made, because, like I mentioned, players who are late-game post-washers will be unable to do those stronger bosses because they haven't washed properly for them.
    3. Special HP Equipment. I liked reading about this one. It is more serious than reducing boss damage because it will affect all areas of play, but it doesn't need to change any core mechanics. These special pieces of equipment would obviously have to be very rare, and more discussion would be necessary. It seems to be a decent compromise.
    4. Increasing HP/MP Gains or other significant mechanics changes. Obviously the toughest to do, but if we're looking in the super-long-term for solutions, this would be it. Like I said, the longer we wait, the harder it will be to do. Should something like this happen, it will retroactively nerf the power of players who are already late game, which is why it might need to be combined with one or two of the other suggestions I've reiterated.

    I doubt I've said anything new, but I hope my presentation of my thoughts can at least make some kind of compelling contribution to doing something about HP washing for the good of the player base and the long-term health of this server. Regardless of our opinions on this topic, I think we can all agree that we care about making this game fun and enjoyable, and so whether or not we think we should do a million things or none at all, we ought to at least give each other credit for putting in the effort to share our opinions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  5. Discor
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    Discor Slimy

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    Hello to all .
    I am new to the game and i do not understand the problem with hp washing , and would apreciate an explanation .
    Is it not in every mmo that you need for the end game bosses a big party or to be extremly over lvled, or to use some annoying\exploitev tactic ?
    P.s sorry for gramar , english not my languege
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Awliya
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    Awliya King Slime

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    [​IMG]

    SEE THAT RED SQUARE
    I WANT IT REDUCED IN SOME MANNER THAT IS AGREEABLE TO A MAJORITY

    I THINK THIS IS FAIR BECAUSE:
    • YOU STILL GOTTA BUY AP RESETS
    • NOBODY GETS FREE SHIT
    • EVERYONE GETS THE OPTION TO WASH WITHOUT HAVING TO BOOST BASE INT OR HAVE INT GEAR
    • IT IS STILL REWARDING TO MIN/MAXERS TO WASH
    THANKS

    I THINK SOMETHING LIKE ADJUSTING MINIMUM MP TO ALLOW FOR NON INT GEAR/BASE INT CHARACTERS TO GET LIKE ~40 WASHES SOUNDS FAIR
     
  7. Kyle
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    Kyle Capt. Latanica

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    read the thread
     
  8. Chew
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    Chew Headless Horseman

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    4) A HP gain at lvl 155 for every class, just enough to reach 7.600 or whatever we conclude necessary.
    Lvl 1-155 is still going to be a challenge, and lvl 155-200 is going be slightly easier.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. Doll
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    Doll Slime

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    I too am new to this particular server, and wanted to start a NL. However, knowing about the possibility of requiring HP washing to attempt challenges in the game at a reasonable level, I didn’t start the NL I wanted to play.

    Is this fun? No.

    Do I wish every time I log on that I could start the sin? Yes.

    However, I can’t due to needing funds, INT equips and a possible self-leecher.

    At the moment, I don’t feel like I’m playing a game. I’m doing the chores, homework, study or whatever I have to do before I can actually start the game. If I weren’t a die-hard Old MapleStory fan, I would have quit this game/server long ago. The game already demands a certain type of person that wants to dedicate hours and hours before doing anything super interesting or fun. HP washing just makes it more like a job you hate than anything else.

    I’m not sure about changes or anything, but I did like the idea a previous comment mentioned about raising MP of all characters, so as not to give an unfair advantage over the already-HP-washed.

    Idea: HP Buff

    Another idea could be of a HP Buff (similar to HB). Is there a way to increase the HP of all characters who enter the HT map by a uniform amount or %? I think this would be simple as it would act like any other buff, but applies only within the map and couldn’t be dispelled by the Boss. In my opinion, this would solve all the issues without requiring much tweaking.

    Also, if you’re worrying about HT becoming too easy, why not increase its HP, or something similar.

    I want something to change as I just want to play a class I wanted to play. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  10. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Well, that's kinda the goal of this server; a server that people that are used to the old gameplay want to play without the shortcuts and speedups. The 'problem' is that even to today of us being for 2 years and half there haven't been a single server that try to be authentic as well, with exception of MapleGlobal, which does a fantastic job bringing an even more hardcore game up which puts this one on shame, honestly.

    While we have now AP resets during events to make grinding more exciting instead of AP resets being voting only, doing things like scrapping AP resets altogether or things like buffing yourself when you HT turn this just into a server like any other server, which makes the end point of this server pointless, since people will just run to servers that have it all easier, like MapleRoyals or MapleSaga.

    TL;DR: I know MapleLegends isn't for everyone, and unfortunately I can't please all the users and playertypes in one server.
     
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  11. Danny07
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    Danny07 Pink Teddy

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    GOOD. KEEP THINGS STIFF AROUND HERE. BECAUSE IM GOING TO CONQUER IT ANYWAYS. MY 30K HP NL IS COMING FOR ALL OF U.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o1Ty838OZ9kOO5kwliYQ3Im-8VI_bR4gYTxe3YAuO00/edit?usp=sharing
     
  12. Doll
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    Doll Slime

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    I agree with you, Kim.

    I’m still a little torn, and it seems like a lot of players want to feel like they’re being heard as well.

    I was drawn to this server for its authenticity to Old Maple, and am pleased to see your intent on keeping it as authentic as possible.

    I’m one of the players who loves the statistics and mathematics of the game. I would rather spend the time accruing INT equips and funds in order to be ‘optimal’ over that of just playing a character and having no end goal in mind. So, in that aspect, HP washing provides an extra challenge, which I enjoy.

    Maybe, like you’re implementing, the change needs to be in the AP resets. Making them more accessible will make HP washing more achievable.

    My opinion only: The thing that throws me is having a rather long time frame needed to acquire enough AP resets to complete the HP washing. I personally enjoy levelling my characters as fast as possible, and the amount of time needed for the required Vote Cash/AP resets is excessive and would prevent me from furthering my character. But, that’s just me personally.

    Adding AP resets to events is a great idea. Making them more accessible would be great also, such as: costing less or adding bundles, making them less rare in events or implementing something outside of events. In the authentic Maple, people who HP washed wouldn’t have waited 24hours for another 5,000 NX. The real life time restriction of accruing enough AP resets is probably the most deterring element. :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. kalash
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    kalash Headless Horseman

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    Then just don't hp wash that much. You only need 5.6k hp by lvl 155 to do ht, which is really the only boss you need hp washing for. There must be people having made the exact calculations, but if you just add like 60 int asap you should be peachy (using int equips whenever possilble will make your life more comfortable).
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. iLovKimberly
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    iLovKimberly Headless Horseman

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    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Danny07
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    Danny07 Pink Teddy

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    I just started 10 days ago -- But I'm not new; I joined-and-shortly-left the server in December of 2016. I left soon after starting; TIME - due to NX/Voting mechanics - was a formidable foe in my HP Wash plans and was a turn off for me like many here. Well, I technically left because winter break was over and nursing school is NO JOKE. But I'm graduated now. I'm back and resolute in my actions.

    From 10 days ago IGN MrRogers: I went from lvl 1 and am now a lvl 85 priest (and climbing). yes. money machine. will be merching too. everything. everything. I'm going hard in the paint (basketball reference when driving hard to the net). Need to hit 1070 magic ASAP; we already know that 1070 @lvl 30 gen is the 1 hitter quitter. *** LES GO ***. (I also have another character class in mind for farming that only requires 3rd job! But that is later down the road)
     
  16. GameSuks
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    GameSuks Orange Mushroom

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    Maybe lower the HT dmg by a little so that while HP washing isnt optional the amount of months/years of vote cash needed to be saved would be lowered.
     
  17. Awliya
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    Awliya King Slime

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    I still think my previous idea is the ideal compromise.

    Reducing minimum MP is probably the fairest way to go about it. Just reduce the minimum MP required on classes enough to allow them for 30-40 washes.
     
  18. R0wdy
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    R0wdy Pink Teddy

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    This is all nonsense. Play the game. Wash. Don't wash. Whatever.

    If you find HP washing a pain in the ass (like I do), then don't wash... Simple!

    If you want to have a "perfect" character and can't imagine playing the game any other way, then that's a you problem, not a server problem.
     
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  19. Danny07
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    Danny07 Pink Teddy

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    If the HP wash mechanics are changed to an easier style then I might as well go back to playing KhainiMS where my 500k hp toons cap 2.1b lines of damage on all my dex classes (yea I got it like that). I came here because I accept the challenge -- so don't u change a thing about it. Please keep it the same as you have.
     
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  20. hsmule5430
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    hsmule5430 Slimy

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    lol
     

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