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Make Zak-exclusive LV10 Books drop from Scarlion/Targa

Discussion in 'Rejected' started by BadWolf, Nov 15, 2016.

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  1. BadWolf
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    BadWolf King Slime

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    Scarlion and Targa are a good alternative to the zakum prequests, but unfortunately it may only be partially the case. The problem is, there are still a few level 10 books that only drop from Zakum. (Advanced Charge, Advanced Combo, Triple Throw and Angel's Ray). Zakum Helmets require you to be level 50 to wear, while Scarlion/Targa Hats require you to be level 90 which makes those new bosses a balanced alternative to Zakum, having to be much stronger to even wear the helmet that is almost identically as good as a Zhelm.

    Why not making zak-exclusive LV10 books drop from Scarlion/Targa is unfair and unbalanced:
    Mages train the fastest(by a landslide) and unlock their full-map no-cooldown AoE without having to go to Zak, and only a few classes which are all worse at training have to go to Zak to unlock their skills. Those are all main skills for 4th job. Seeing as the strongest classes don't need to do anything zakum related to unlock their main skills, it makes no sense for only 4 or 5 classes to have to do that content to unlock their skills.
     
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  2. Sucre
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    Sucre Zakum

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    I guarantee you that doing the genesis quest is far more annoying than zaking for the book.
    I don't know about blizzard and meteor though.
     
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  3. OP
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    BadWolf
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    BadWolf King Slime

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    It's not about how annoying it is to kill Zakum because you can just buy looting the book, it's about the prequests, specifically the jump quest. Some love it, some hate it, but making those books drop from Targa/Scarlion would balance unlocking 4th job skills and seeing as Genesis is the main skill of the best class in the game, it makes sense it'd be annoying to get. No other classes come close to Mages, specifically the Mage with Holy Symbol.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
  4. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    hope you enjoy process to getting them, not just result. no pain, no gain.

    the more process is harder, the more feeling of achieve it, I believe.
     
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  5. OP
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    BadWolf
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    BadWolf King Slime

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    Saying to enjoy the process and then saying the process is a pain are two contradictory statements unleashed one after the other. You need to be higher level to fight Targa/Scarlion than you need to fight Zakum, so even if I grant you that you should always take the hardest path; the path I'm suggesting is harder.

    But even if you wanted to look at both statements separately, it's still illogical to make some classes go through a process which others don't have to. If you were playing Mario, would it make sense for only Luigi to have to do content that is optional for Mario in order to get the only mushroom in the game? A mario level inside a MMORPG that isn't optional for only 4 or 5 classes out of 12, while those 4 or 5 classes aren't even the most powerful, makes no sense.

    It's relevant to know that I don't like this server because it's easy - I'm not playing Legends because I randomly randomly picked it. I want to play the hardest, lowest rates server. Games are about having fun, and a lot of people like progression as do I, but not in ways that don't make sense. Would you play the weakest class because it's the toughest to level, even if you don't like it at all?
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
  6. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    well, I don't think it's contradictory thing. I believe both can stand together.

    yes, req lvl to enter for each bosses are 50 and 80(90?) but to fight "actually" you need to be at least 135+. and fighting Targa/Scarlion is MUCH EASIER than fighting against zak in general. you'll know it soon after staff release it. so I can't agree ur suggesting path is "harder".

    than should we make all skills acts like same, and just have diff for class name and effects for balance? i don't think so.

    why you think ppls choose their class with only their strength and functions? I saw many ppls choosed their class just like these reasons - "shad is cool xD" "farting in FM FTW" "sair has wings so can fly f3" "FJ <33" "bucc is bae, anyone isn't bucc has wrong job" "perma beginner HYPE". i can't think they choosed their class for power. they choosed their class for each of their fun and i admire them.



    Life in v62 maplestory is as i know continuous of challenge and that's why we feel nostalgia for it - feeling of accomplish. I hope to believe so.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
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  7. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    As with every update we first release it fully authentic, including the drops. When its released we look if things need be tweaked and whatnot.
     
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  8. OP
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    BadWolf
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    BadWolf King Slime

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    That would be true if the topic was physical pain, because that is pleasurable to masochists.

    Do most people go to loot a Zhelm or a level 10 skill book when they can kill Zakum? the answer is almost always no. Instead of going through a truly annoying process (for me and others it is way more annoying than training) just to loot those things without even being able to kill Zakum, why not indeed kill a somewhat easier boss and actually earn it in a Action Role Playing Game way, which MapleStory is?

    No, that would be a very boring way of balancing the classes. Attackers with slow mobility and high HP should do less damage than attackers with high mobility and low HP. That's balance. Making a mage which is somewhat as mobile as a night lord 1-2 hit K.O the entire screen breaks balance completely, because the other classes can do nothing close to this. But even if I did think what you metaphor implies, what you said there is still a straw man argument because my claim was that whether classes are balanced in a fun way or a boring way, it makes no sense to make some of them as weaker classes do content the others don't have to in order to unlock their skills at all. Ice/Lightning Arch Mages get Blizzard more easily than Bishops get Genesis, while bishops have +50% EXP.

    That was exactly my point. If we take on a challenge in a game, we should only do so if we enjoy it. I play a character to play through the journey of working towards milestones, and I find that process fun in many places, and less fun in many other places. Why should you do an annoying Jump Quest for hours to unlock a skill from a boss you didn't even kill? Making it impossible to get it in another way that you need to also work for and be more powerful for makes no sense.

    Feeling of accomplish does not always justify a process if you are truly terribly annoyed in this process. You don't feel the same as me and others feel when you do the prequests, but for this reason there needs to be an alternative, especially now that there is one for a Zhelm.

    Just reminding you that a lot of the content in the game isn't content from v62, and items are more powerful than they were in GMS, which shows the server doesn't mind changing some things up in order to make the game better.
     
  9. Charlobeetle
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    Charlobeetle Brown Teddy

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    probably no one will ever go zak if that happens and ppl have to pay higher price to get help for those book which is pretty nice :)
    anyway i think zak still need it's function as a popular boss. it's gonna be weird that no ppl doing zak anymore
    anw as a bowmaster we dont really need anything except helm from zak until lvl 160+ so in my opinion this it not possible and not looking forward to it
    and if u dont like the idea that ur lvl10 skill book drop only from zak then dont choose that class f3
     
  10. OP
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    BadWolf
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    BadWolf King Slime

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    "Probably no one will ever go zak if that happens"
    Most zak runs aren't being done for lv10 books and you know it.

    "i think zak still need it's function as a popular boss."
    As you know, most zak runs are not being done for lv10 books..

    "it's gonna be weird that no ppl doing zak anymore"
    the only people who wont be doing zak at all or less than before, are the people who genuinely hate the pre-quests. So no, this isn't gonna make everyone stop zak'ing.

    "as a bowmaster we dont really need anything except helm from zak until lvl 160+ so in my opinion this it not possible and not looking forward to it"
    So because your class doesn't need a level 10 book from zakum then it's impossible to make level 10 books that other classes need to drop from a boss that doesn't need to do those pre-quests for? so you are saying that because this literally has no effect on your class, that other classes need to suck it up? I hope you can see how flawed that "reasoning" is, if you can even call it that.

    "if u dont like the idea that ur lvl10 skill book drop only from zak then dont choose that class f3"
    Your lack of sympathy for people who hate the pre-quests and like a class that is affected by this doesn't make the situation ok. Just because you lack sympathy doesn't mean that people should change for your own sake. The reality is; the classes that need those books don't come close to the training speed of Mages, which makes those books only dropping from Zak nonsensical, unfair and unbalanced, unless there was an alternative which is what I suggested.

    Side note: It's interesting to see your arguments(which were btw flawed, as I debunked them) towards not making this change are coming from the person who profits most from selling these services.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
  11. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    BadWolfBadWolf I'd be happy to do the JQ for you if you'd like.
     
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  12. OP
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    BadWolf
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    BadWolf King Slime

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    1. this isn't only about me
    2. account sharing is forbidden
    thank you, tho.
     
  13. Hiyo
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    Hiyo Headless Horseman Retired Staff

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    If these bosses provide a better helm than zakum, I don't see why we should completely shut down an enitre boss by letting those two bosses drop the skillbooks.

    Also as for mages, it is true they are the best grinders in game but the prequests for the ultimate is annoying and they burn pots quickly and it is not cute to spend 2mil on pots every hour of grind.

    I think we should keep those skillbooks a zakum drop to create an incentive for people to zakum or else its just a useless boss that might just be killed for exp.
     
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  14. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    1. okay
    2. don't tell any1 :p
     
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  15. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Going close this thread since I've said I have no plans to make changes to unreleased content.
     
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