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New 4th Job Skill for NLs

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by beegoratto, Jul 13, 2023.

  1. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    leetoratto
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    Night Lords currently have advantages over other classes and weaknesses that can be addressed with the addition of a single skill. This new skill will bring them more in-line with other classes, making them easier to balance while still retaining a clear class identity.

    The issues this suggestion will seek to tackle are the following, in no particular order:
    • The discrepancy between Night Lords and other classes in SP allocation. Night Lords have 3 valuable 4th Job Skills in Triple Throw, Shadow Shifter, and Shadow Claw, after which they have no high priority skills. Most NLs find themselves with 40+ unused SP at high levels, whereas many other classes struggle to max all of their desired skills even at 200. This suggestion seeks to remedy this by dialing back the strength of current high priority 4th Job NL skills and giving another enticing skill to force NLs to be more strategic with SP usage.
    • The reliance on SE. Many NLs or hosts know the struggle of an SE disconnecting, crashing, or dying with no Rez up in a run full of NLs and being forced to end the run early. This reliance on SE is a crutch that allows NLs to have their damage overtuned with SE. By pulling back the SE scaling on NLs, we also enable more balance knobs to properly tuning NL damage to be more in line with other classes.
    • The struggles of NLs at close range fights. When compared to the ability for Corsairs to fire from any range including standing on top of a monster, NLs are quite lacking at close-range. While some may see this as a justified drawback to the overwhelming advantages of the class, Corsairs have even higher raw DPM and do not suffer from this drawback. By putting NLs closer to Corsairs in their ability to consistently deal damage in all situations, it helps alleviate their struggles in certain fights where Corsairs are without question considered the superior class, such as Horntail and Auf.

    The suggestion itself is a combination of tuning 3 existing skills and adding 1 additional 4th job skill. The changes are as follows:

    Shadow Claw (Adjusted)
    Shadow Claw duration raised to 3 minutes, but now consumes 350 Stars instead of 200.

    Shadow Shifter (Nerf)
    Shadow Shifter dodge chance is reduced by 50% at all ranks, and is now an active ability. The duration lasts 3 minutes at all ranks and costs 20 MP to cast, and is dispellable.

    Triple Throw (Nerf)
    Triple Throw damage is reduced by 50% at all ranks, and no longer has the ability to Crit.

    Execute (New Ability)
    Execute is a new passive ability that can be raised to a maximum level of 40. Execute grants the Night Lord a chance to instantly deal 100% of the remaining health on the target, scaling with remaining % health. Execute can proc once per instance of damage, meaning each hit of Triple Throw will give an additional chance to proc. Execute can be activated on any target, including bosses, and ignores the damage cap. Damage dealt contributes to DPM tests (obviously).
    Chance to proc: .025% at rank 1 per 1% missing HP to a maximum of 1% at rank 40 per 1% missing HP.

    This means at Rank 1, it will have a 1% chance to proc when their target is at 60% HP, while at Rank 40 it will have a 40% chance to proc.

    Execute can be activated on any instance of damage, regardless of source, meaning it can be activated on any skill or even a basic attack. This helps give NLs more tools for dealing damage in close-up situations instead of being forced to TT from long-range.

    Hopefully this levels the playing field between NLs and other classes and opens up more bossing opportunities for everyone!
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2023
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  2. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    Did you just post your BT application in a public section?
     
    • Informative Informative x 6
  3. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    dont expose me like this
     
  4. PumpkinJuice
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    PumpkinJuice Mushmom

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    With the Triple Throw nerf, I can finally start using Lucky Seven + crit + SE + execute to end bosses
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Very nice suggestion. Sounds like an overall improvement to NL gameplay. One suggestion is that I think Shadow Claw star consumption should be changed to like 344 stars instead because sometimes I cast late and it causes leftovers that can’t be used. I can’t imagine anyone thinking unusable leftover stars as a good thing.
     
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  6. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    After carefully considering this idea, I have decided this is a player skill issue and not something that needs to be accounted for. I will consider 348 though.
     
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  7. fartsy
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    fartsy Zakum

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    The proposed changes to the Night Lords class in order to address the mentioned issues do have some merits, but there are also potential drawbacks and considerations to take into account.

    Firstly, addressing the discrepancy in SP allocation is a valid concern. If Night Lords have excess SP at high levels while other classes struggle to max their desired skills, it can create an imbalance. However, simply dialing back the strength of existing high priority skills may not be the most effective solution. It would be more beneficial to reevaluate the entire skill set of Night Lords and distribute the power and utility more evenly across their skills, providing meaningful choices for players in terms of SP allocation.

    Secondly, the reliance on Shadow Evasion (SE) as a key factor in Night Lords' damage output is acknowledged. SE disconnects, crashes, or the lack of resurrection options can indeed hinder their performance. However, reducing the SE scaling may not be the ideal approach to balance the class. Instead, introducing alternative mechanics or skills that offer damage output and survivability without relying solely on SE would be a more comprehensive solution. This would allow Night Lords to have more strategic options and reduce the impact of SE-related issues.

    Thirdly, the suggestion to improve Night Lords' close-range capabilities is a reasonable one, considering the advantages of classes like Corsairs. However, it is important to approach this adjustment carefully to maintain class diversity and balance. While it may be acceptable to give Night Lords some additional tools for close-range combat, it should not completely bridge the gap between them and other classes that excel in that aspect. Class strengths and weaknesses contribute to the overall game balance and diversity, and completely removing the drawbacks of Night Lords' close-range combat could undermine that.

    Regarding the specific changes proposed, some adjustments seem appropriate, while others may require further consideration. The increase in duration and star consumption for Shadow Claw is a reasonable trade-off for its power. However, reducing the dodge chance of Shadow Shifter by 50% and making it an active ability may negatively impact the class's survivability. It is important to strike a balance between reducing reliance on passive abilities and maintaining the viability of the class in various situations.

    The proposed nerf to Triple Throw by reducing its damage and removing the ability to Crit may be too severe. This could significantly impact the overall damage output of Night Lords and potentially make them less competitive compared to other classes. A more moderate adjustment that still allows them to retain their damage potential would be more appropriate.

    The introduction of the new ability, Execute, has potential, but the scaling and chance to proc should be carefully evaluated. A 40% chance to instantly deal 100% of the remaining health seems disproportionately powerful, especially considering it can activate on any instance of damage. Fine-tuning the numbers and considering its interactions with other skills and mechanics would be necessary to ensure it does not become overpowered or overshadow other class abilities.

    In conclusion, while the intention to address the issues faced by Night Lords is commendable, the proposed changes need further refinement and consideration. Balancing classes in a game requires a delicate approach to maintain diversity, strategic choices, and overall enjoyment for players. Taking into account the feedback from the community and conducting thorough testing would be essential to implementing changes that effectively address the concerns without introducing new imbalances.
     
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  8. asaniqq
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    asaniqq Mushmom

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    MooGPT answer
     
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  9. Edann
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    Edann Mr. Anchor Retired Staff

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    so a functioning mortal blow
     
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  10. Ainz
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    Ainz Horntail

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    So many I keep forgetting
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    This is what happens when you let people speak on podcasts
     
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  11. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    Proposed new NL skill: Unholy Dark Evil Genesis (Extra Edgy)
    An unholy ray of moonlight shines down from the sky, burning up to 15 monsters at one time and apply damage based on LUK, regardless of the rate of Claw Mastery.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 3
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  12. Pelinsu
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    Pelinsu Timer

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    Did we ever had a skill addition before (excluding the event ones) or would "Unholy Evil Dark Genesis" be the first one?
     
  13. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    No this used to be an old school server before the double stab buff.
     
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  14. Rapskal
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    Rapskal Chronos

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    I love NL and don't want it to change too much.

    As such, I would be much more in favour of a simple damage nerf than a rework like this. I don't care how smart or creative it is, just don't want large change XatSmile
     
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  15. Ferluci
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    Ferluci Zakum Retired Staff

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    Fck it lets do it we are not old school anymore anyway.
     
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  16. kota1
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    kota1 Blue Snail

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  17. DrChuchu
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    DrChuchu Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Brb making 6 NL mules for solo HT, PB, Auf. Also B> Execute 40 service.
     
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  18. Gurk
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    Gurk Skelegon

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    yes, this is huge QoL.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2023
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  19. Dimez
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    Dimez Dark Stone Golem

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    I need a new co-host
     
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  20. Akhenaton
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    Akhenaton King Slime

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    Where else am i supposed to seek validation and attention if not from NLs asking for SE?
     

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