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Paladin Changes

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Chows, Jun 11, 2015.

  1. Chows
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    Chows Slime

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    Hello all,

    I am here today to share an idea of revolutionizing the Paladin class, and maybe all other private servers.

    Paladins, in Maple, are outclassed in every single element of the game. We could call them “the jack-of-all-trades”, but they’re actually “the-jack-of-no-trades”. Paladins do not have the ability to DPS; they do not possess mobility; they do not have a skill like Genesis, Blizzard, or Meteor to level fast; and they do not bring anything to the table in parties. Heroes and DK can basically do what Paladins do, but much more efficiently.

    TL;DR: Paladins are glorified beginners (w/holy hammer (but it has cooldown)).

    I am suggesting that we change the paladin passive skill Gaurdian. I suggest to have it changed to Party Buff where it reduces ALL incoming damage (both physical and magic attacks) by a certain % (Maybe 25% is a good number?)

    In most MMOs, Paladins specialize in tanking for the party. This would give the Paladin a true Paladin-like ability. To protect the well being of the Paladin's Allies

    My Pros/Cons

    Pros

    1) I was looking at the rankings today and noticed, at the time I counted, there were 35 Page/White Knights of 260 Warriors over level 30. That is roughly 13%. And of all MapleLegend characters over level 30 (1438) that is only 2.4%. Also sad to say but, we have more beginners over level 10 (79) than we do Pages/White knights. I believe with this change to their skill book, people would give more incentive to play Paladin.

    I am not hoping that with this change everyone will just drop their characters and make a Paladin, but it will just increase the population of that class by a noticeable number


    2) The addition of this change will also provide greatly for all other classes as well. Especially the nonwarrior classes that have low HP pools. When bossing in maple, I noticed that people have been very specific on only inviting people that have "HP Washed" which is something I find silly. Maybe some classes will still have to "HP Wash" but it won't be so dramatic as before. HP washing is possible, but extremely hard to do in MapleLegends due to AP resets being untradeable and, therefore, limited. Also, it isn’t fair if NX must be spent to just survive a hit from a boss.


    3) It makes end game more easy for casual level players. This change isn't game destroying, but rather a renaissance to a class very few have gotten their feet wet into.


    4) It won’t shift the powers away from the top classes like bishops, night lords, bowmasters and such. It just gives the Paladin something to offer when going bossing. And it isn't a bossing benefit; Paladins could use this during training as well.

    The class will still stay true to its identity in terms of retaining their signature elemental skills, whilst revamping it enough so that they will be welcomed to boss runs (for once).


    5) A feature as significant as this will most likely be the first of it’s kind. Perhaps one day, the MapleLegends’ source will be a commonly used as a foundation for new pre-bb servers to build upon. Not saying competition is a good thing, but rather the fact that MapleLegends will be written next to servers like OdinMS (Field of Judgment) and TitanMS in Maplestory private server history.


    6) Last, but not least, this will further promote party playing. Relying on Guardian from Pallies will discourage players from spending NX to HP wash, and ultimately discourage players to solo bosses.

    Cons

    1) I know nothing about coding and such so I don't know if this is even possible or worth the energy.

    2) It strays away from how it was in GMS, but everyone can agree GMS wasn't perfect and definitely has issues with class balancing.

    3) This will make Blunt weapon and Sword weapon scrolls go up a little in price. Sorry warriors.

    4) This will open the flood gates for people to ask for changes of other classes.




    Thank you everyone for taking the time to read my lengthy suggestion. The pros and cons list is unfinished, I just wanted to post this rough draft and see what other people think about my idea.

    PS. I do not play a Page/White knight/ Paladin, this was just an idea that I came up with to improve the gameplay.
     
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  2. tubs
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    tubs Slime

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    Tubs
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    the problem with this server is that it's just wayyyyy too traditional to implement brand-new revolutionizing changes. we have to buy increased inventory space, we have to ride the boats for 10min, we have to buy smegas, we don't even get maple weapons (yet) because too many people complained "it'll break the atmosphere."

    and i don't like it. pre-big bang wasn't perfect. why can't we have small changes, or even big ones like this, that overall improve the experience. although the server is pretty new, there just isn't enough players actually playing. maybe voting to get the nx to gacha one day, but no real players. you're lucky to find a kpq party.

    i want to play. but on the other hand i don't want to play a single-player game with a chat function. there needs to be some small changes, and then maybe big ones like this to set this server apart.
     
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  3. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    There's already a bunch of small changes done, even for Paladin. Paladin's Heaven Hammer's cooldown was decreased from 100 seconds to 20, making it the only skill right now using the v0.83 buff over every other skill. Also, this server is now barely 2 months old and its the second biggest pre-big bang server, and there's about 10 other pre-big bang servers around, if not more.

    The thing that actually make people join MapleLegends is the fact we are so GMS-like. There's about 10 other servers that are very custom (outside of ClassicMS) that do not attract anyone at all, because people that play old versions come for the old gameplay. People that play BB come for the new game play.

    OP's suggestion is totally not "impossible" to add, because Paladins is indeed out of the most outclassed classes out there, so ideas like these are always nice.

    EDIT:
    Maple Weapons is a Private Server meme, and a terrible one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2015
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  4. Hyuga
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    Hyuga Mr. Anchor

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    Can i give this post a thousand likes? :D
     
  5. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Now further into this topic, its not really possible easily to make a custom skill. Basically, all skills work by a packet and so far I know creating one for a whole new skill is not the easiest thing if not impossible to do. I am still asking deeper to verify that though.
     
  6. Doap
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    Doap Mixed Golem

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    If any classes are gonna get buffed (not saying they should or shouldn't), pallies are arguably the class who would benefit the most. So if it's going to be done, might as well be done to the right class.
    My2¢
     
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  7. Scorpio
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    Scorpio Slime

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    10:09 PM
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    I whole-heartedly agree with this entire argument. My main was a white knight pre-bb and I appreciated its quirkiness. Having said that, Kim touched on it; custom skill creation is basically impossible for the general public. The skill would require a plethora of time and effort in order to code something of that size. Is that effort worth it for a class that, like you said, 2.4% of the population plays when those resources could be used to implement other player-wide improvements? My opinion: no.
     
  8. Mstweaker
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    Mstweaker Horny Mushroom

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    This is a +1 from me.
    Implementing this is basically player-wide improvement. The 2.4% will definitely increase with this buff. The buff not only caters to Pallies, but all other classes in general, for it creates synergy.
    As for playing Pallies for its quirkiness... thats rather laughable. Sure, that may the reason to play beginners and HP warriors, but Pallies are an established class; they should have a more justified reason to be played than "being quirky".
    As OP wrote, Pallies really have nothing. They literally have nothing. Hell, I think HP warriors have more going for them than Pallies.
    This buff will increase the diversification, make HP washing obsolete, and further enhance party play all at once. If you can find another way to achieve "player-wide improvement" while yielding better results than this, then by all means, suggest away.
     
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  9. Chew
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    Chew Headless Horseman

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    Sure the buff sounds nice and all but, you'd have to bring more to the table for ppl to actually make s paladin, either some lvl of bossing (which i think would be most fitting), or some lvl of mobbing.
    Can someone inform me, how are they right now in terms of bossing compared to heroes?
     
  10. Autoassemble
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    Autoassemble Selkie Jr.

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    Beautifully created thread, points made in an excellent manner and are valid. It is definitely possible to do (disregarding the who and how) and the change you are suggesting would both support the paladin class while not being overpowered in any definition of the word. This definitely has my vote. +1
     
  11. Infidel
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    Infidel Capt. Latanica

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    Great details with the pros and cons. Good job.

    THIS is how you make a suggestion.
     
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  12. Scorpio
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    Scorpio Slime

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    Pally's Blast is nothing short of competitive. Sure, it may be slightly weaker than brandish, but it holds its own in terms of bossing. I'm all for a 25% damage reduction as it would come close to alleviating HP washing, however, if there is no other changes to pallys I'm fairly confident in saying that it would just become another "utility class" and I'm sure all the end-game players would simply have pally mules. Why support another disadvantage to casual players who do not have the time/resources to make one? If anything, I would suggest a slight HP buff for ranged classes. For example, Archer classes get between 16~20 HP per level. If you were to change that range to 20~24 per level, over 110 levels (lvl 10 archer to lvl 120 BM/MM) there would be a direct HP gain minimally of 440 which is a very significant increase. By level 160 a BM/MM would have 600 more HP than normal which would also be equivalent to roughly 30-38 washes. These are just figures and I would be much more comfortable suggesting the implementation after running some numbers, however, this is an example to provide evidence that there are **many** ""player-wide improvements" while yielding better results than this."

    Case. Rested.
     
  13. Robert
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    Robert Chronos

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    rebirth should fix this issue!!!!

    In all seriousness, this suggestion is great, I personally loved my white knight back in the days, but it's probably the worst class in the game to play.
     
  14. Bulba
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    Bulba Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Currently, 3rd and 4th job advancements give HP/MP boosts (depending on class) when it shouldn't, so that's one out-of-place factor that is already helping to alleviate HP washing.

    But I, too, do feel that with this change, it is possible that paladins end up as mules rather than a class people want to play as their main (similar to HB/HS mules). Perhaps a different kind of non-party related change that buffs their offensives or something that allows it to stand out more from the other classes might be a better solution to get people to want to play Paladins for their design as a whole rather than feel forced to make one just for that one buff.
     
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  15. Scorpio
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    Scorpio Slime

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    Hi Bulba,

    Is the 3rd and 4th job HP/MP compensation you are referring to legends-specific or were you speaking in general? Also, do you have specific figures and classes this applies to? Just Curious.
     
  16. Bulba
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    Bulba Skelegon Retired Staff

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    GMS did not give HP/MP boosts for 3rd/4th job, but here in Legends we do (probably by a mistake, but it might be here to stay).

    http://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/job-advancement-hp-mp-gains.3576/#post-33699

    The table provided by Sam_Vosh in the thread above contains the values for the 3rd/4th job gains I believe. It affects all classes.
     
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  17. Scorpio
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    Scorpio Slime

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    This is very helpful. Thank you. I retract my HP increase idea as the increase from the 3rd and 4th job is sufficient (And the MP boost provides HP wash options without base int +++.)
     
  18. Mstweaker
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    Mstweaker Horny Mushroom

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    Im just gonna say this:
    HB = 2nd Job
    HS = 3rd Job
    Guardian = 4th Job

    If you grind a mule all the way to 120 for a measly buff, than you deserve that buff. That being said, theyre will always be people abusing the system. We can huff and puff about it all we want, but there really is no preventing it. How many Sharp Eye mules do you see in this server? Thats right; none.

    As for boosting HP and MP slightly.. that is a viable option. I know I may be jumping the gun, but against Pink Bean, an HP gain of 440 is extremely miniscule, seeing that Pink Bean hits for AT LEAST 15k damage. If the rates of HP/MP gain were to be fixed RIGHT NOW, it would hardly be fair for pre-existing characters.

    And sure.. Blast is competitive when bosses are Holy weak. But thats never the case. Blast will always lose to Brandish and Crusher + Zerk on all big bosses. Pallies are tanks? Please do tell.. what defensive skills do Pallies specifically have that sets them apart from the other warriors?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  19. Pina
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    Pina Stone Golem

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    Pally's are fine wtf? I played one in beta til 144...

    its just a different play style and many just prefer the flasyness of dk's and heros.
    I like pallys because they offer something different than the traditional spear crusher or brandish.
    + they dont needa hp wash because they are tanks already.
    sure they have a bad 2nd job and a slighty underpowered 3rd, but their elemental attacks are so boosting and rewarding. and when you hit 4th it becomes very strong.
     
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  20. Bulba
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    Bulba Skelegon Retired Staff

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    If the 3rd/4th job HP/MP gain was fixed, I think it's only fair that pre-existing characters get their stats reduced as well, either by the exact value if there is an efficient way to do that, if not deduct the minimum possible gain, leaving them with a small surplus.

    Apart from being just a mule, the damage reduction allows people to HP wash less (less NX sink. This helps casual players, but it also benefits hardcore players too). Plus, depending on how it is coded (also drawing reference to post-bb Mercedes' Water Shield for those who know), this skill may reduce the damage done by 1/1 attacks, so that you survive with 25% hp instead of 1HP, a big difference to people who are careless. (I don't know if current damage reduction skills already do this.) Whether or not this is good or bad is up for debate, but it still changes the bossing scene a little. For the time being, I prefer sticking to good old stuff and look for other ways to buff the paladins (like a simple CD reduction which has already been applied). Maybe we should amplify their elemental skills, since that is supposed to be their forte.
     
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