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Re-examining the rewards on GPQ

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Jaina, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. Jaina
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    Jaina Mixed Golem

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    Jun 29, 2017
    9:12 PM
    Jaina/Alleria/Keyes
    I/L Arch Mage
    Crowns
    Objective
    To discuss and suggest possible loot items to be added to the Guild Party Quest (GPQ) bonus stage.

    The case for implementation (and the narrative thus far)
    After the introduction of Amoria PQ (APQ), Onyx Apples were removed from the bonus stage of GPQ. The apples were originally added as a stopgap measure in an attempt to deal with the issue of the Vote2Win marriages.
    Previously, I also wagered that from my empirical interactions with others, people have found the addition of apples to GPQ a pleasant addition - serving as a great incentive to invite more people to partake in GPQ. I also shared that GPQ was inherently more open to participation as compared to the newer APQ, as it did not have a marriage criteria attached more to it.
    I also stated my belief that it was worth assessing the (prior) implementation on Apples on its own merits, and that it can be much more than just a fix, which was the original implementation intention. My points are:

    1. "GPQ requires cooperation, teamwork, and prowess to complete in a timely manner - and it rewards participants for their effort (unlike marriage)"
    2. "[GPQ is] not exactly spammable on an individual basis, unlike marriages where one can intermarry with two mules"
    3. "the drop rate of apples from GPQ was already well balanced (not very frequent) and seeing the apple pop out of the box has always been pleasant to me, as a player"
    To that, Kimmy replied:
    I am encouraged that we can entertain the possibility of future additions to GPQ, despite the current removal of apples. As such, I hope to spearhead the following discussion as to how we can brainstorm a proper and befitting addition to GPQ rewards.

    What should be added
    Before delving into this section proper, I believe that it is wise for us to evaluate what would constitute a "fair and equitable reward". I have thought of three possible grounds for evaluation:

    1. The reward should be something which people would like to have
    2. The reward can be traded
    3. The reward is worth coming back for again and again

    Justifications
    [​IMG]
    I anticipate point 2 to draw some flak. But I strongly believe in this point as I believe that the rewards should be usable by all. By that meaning, individuals should be able to benefit from the reward regardless of their level, be it level 25 or level 125.

    Suggestions
    I've tried to brainstorm about this with my alliance (thanks likeylikey and RICEDUCKRICEDUCK), and one possible suggestion would be to consider the implementation of more scrolls. I haven't thought this through properly, but i'm just putting it out there for more ideas to be thrown out.

    Please suggest other possible items to be added! Let's discuss the feasibility of doing so!

    In addition, the following were also suggested...
    Final words
    I spent a lot of time composing this write-up as GPQ has really brought my guild (SweetDream) together over this communal activity. I hope that my recommendations and the ensuing discussion would breathe much life into this often-overlooked gem of a PQ, in that more people would eventually take part in GPQ.

    References
    Prior discussion when APQ went live at https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...ed-maintenance-june-2-2018.21773/#post-161324

    Edits
    (my failed attempts at trying to tag the users mentioned, sorry guys!)
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 14
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Creative Creative x 2
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  2. Stow
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    Stow Mixed Golem

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    9:12 AM
    Dazzle
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    For me, a huge part of doing gpq was discovering apples in the bonus stage and sharing it with my guildies, as well as being all excited about it; it felt like a just reward to our efforts and failed attempts at completing the pq together, in part due to how uncommon the apples were.

    In view of this, my suggestion would be to replace apples with another equally uncommon but valuable reward. This can comprise of scrolls, end game weapons not found as drops (like crushed skulls or Sky Skis, but make these drops super rare), or even a exclusive-to-gpq custom consumable that could give buffs somewhat like apples.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. Heartiess
    Online

    Heartiess Guest

    2:12 AM
    I personally think GPQ rewards are fair... int scrolls are worth a few mil and certain books are needed (taunt)
    There are definitely other PQs that are in greater need of boosted rewards (like OPQ) and i don't agree that removing the apples hurt the "oh but i like doing things with my guild" aspect

    Edit: id just like to add that, if your guildy thinks its a waste of time to group together and have fun as a guild because they removed apples... then the issue isn't the rewards. Plenty of people GPQed often before the apples were ever added
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  4. nanop33
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    nanop33 Capt. Latanica

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    7:12 PM
    Retroviridae
    Shadower
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    Beaters
    +1 to chair suggestion
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  5. Krauser94
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    Krauser94 Designer Staff Member Graphics Designer

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    As mentioned here, i used to do GPQ with friends before the apples were added, it was a good moment to just do something together not caring about our lvl difference and just chatting nicely. Not everything has to be like "if it's not efficient for my end game rush, i won't make it because im wasting time"

    Of course, apples were a good reason to do GPQ, but i also think the drops are nice, and you can do it relatively fast when you catch the "rhythm" to complete it. Idk exactly the drop table of rewards rn, maybe GMs can recheck them if they see it convenient and modify something, idk.

    The only change i would make to GPQ rn is....(sorry for the aggressive tone incoming) REMOVING THE ANNOYING COLUMNS IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR VISION DURING BONUS STAGE MapleF5MapleF5 (like the stones at HT cave basically)

    [​IMG]
    (Sorry for shitty quality on the pic, it's from google...)

    That 3D effect looks cool during all the GPQ, but during Bonus stage you are blind MapleF4

    So basically, adding more scrolls can be a solution that wouldn't hurt too much, but also the current card is a tiny nice extra to do GPQ if you are a collector.

    P.S: The removal of the columns at bonus stage was a serious suggest btw, pretty annoying for real MapleF3
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Gang
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    Gang Timer

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    3:12 AM
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    I've mentioned this several times before, but the black sack removal was a big loss from GPQ rewards, seeing as they sold for around 10-20m. Even for people that didn't really care about that amount of meso it was still a fun item to (ab)use.

    GPQ bonus should be buffed, and I think some scrolls and weapons that are gacha-exclusive could be put in there. Items that are only obtainable from gacha are very obnoxious to buy when the population gets lower and less people use gacha.

    Also, GPQ rewards being great is in my opinion a great addition to the game, as it gives higher leveled people another thing to consider doing instead of just grinding and farming. And sure, farming and grinding will always be more efficient, but giving people some alternative things to do is what makes them keep playing. APQ is already a great addition for this matter, and I think if GPQ bonus were to be buffed it would help alot too.

    It's also one of the only places that benefit from having more active members, since grinding and farming is usually most efficient in solo or duo's. Bossing is also in this category most of the time, but even there it might be more profitable to run with less members. So a great GPQ also brings for a fun experience with many people, regardless of their level, since the biggest part of GPQ doesn't care about your level. I really think people underestimate the benefits of having great GPQ bonus rewards.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
  7. dumbledore
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    dumbledore Capt. Latanica

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    3:12 AM
    dumbledore
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    Now that monster bags are blocked in most towns/pq places, there is no reason to leave balrog sacks out from gpq. Balrog bags could easily be added to gpq bonus, just like it was originally.

    This, with the chair suggestion, and the monster card drops from Ergoth, should create enough incentive to do gpq.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  8. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    3:12 AM
    Moderator Post
    Monster Sacks will not be what will be added if anything get added.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  9. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    7:12 PM
    Lionheart
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    I agree that apples should be added back to GPQ. Now I know APQ is supposed to have a purpose, but it's quite trivial to get an APQ party going, and then you can just keep farming and farming the quest, getting 1 or 2 apples per run. It'll be super easy.

    I'm not saying the apples should be a high drop rate.
    Maybe about 10% chance of finding one in each box? So it's not a guarantee you'd find an apple. Then combined with the fact that GPQ really does take a lot more skill, teamwork, and effort, and I just can't understand why it's so necessary to remove them completely.

    Any other goodies we could add to GPQ as rare rewards would also be appreciated. Imagine... rare chances to receive hunting gach tickets? Maybe extremely rare, dark versions of scrolls? Maybe ultra super rare skill books that drop from bosses?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. dumbledore
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    dumbledore Capt. Latanica

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    dumbledore
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    Maybe, and that would be a possibility for other pqs as well, add vote cash tickets as a rare item obtainable from bonus. This would make the wait to get enough nx for hp washing less, and give a reason to do pq.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Stow
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    Stow Mixed Golem

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    9:12 AM
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    Would rather see a "token" shop based system where you have to accumulate enough tokens from running multiple times to trade in for an ap reset, that said i think this is a decent idea
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Charles
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    Charles Brown Teddy

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    9:12 PM
    +1 to the above mentioned GPQ specific chair, token exchange system for resets, or even GPQ specific consumables. Nothing game breaking, but definitely unique.
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Jaina
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    Jaina Mixed Golem

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    9:12 PM
    Jaina/Alleria/Keyes
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    Thanks everyone for the great responses and feedback (nubjuleznubjulez Krauser94Krauser94 GangGang dumbledoredumbledore LionheartLionheart StowStow ). Apologies for the late response as I was collecting my thoughts on this issue.

    I personally agree with most others in saying that there isn't much harm in adding/enhancing GPQ rewards with things such as scrolls. While a chair is nice to have, it unfortunately might not have as much "replay" value enticing players to keep running GPQ, as compared to items which can be traded by all. As for the token system, that sounds really really interesting! I'm thinking of something along the lines of events which we had; where one can trade in puffs for varying rewards? Might be a bit too complicated though for a GPQ - hence I really like the relative simplicity and ease of application (easy for the GM team to implement) of the first solution proposed.

    As for some of us who thinks that the rewards are currently enough and that we shouldn't be GPQing just for rewards - as virtuous as it would be for us to GPQ out of the desire to have fun together, the reality is unfortunately not near to this ideal. I have found it hard to get my guildies to run GPQ, and many people now prefer to run APQ due to the rewards. The premise of this discussion would therefore have to consider; what is the role of the "carrot-and-stick" in a game? I contend that it would be almost impossible to get people to run any collective activity (i.e. training together, PQing, etc.) if the reward does not outweigh that of other activities (e.g. grinding, sitting in FM and talking with friends, etc.). It is important to analyse gamer behaviour in the context of their daily activities; where other than playing ML, we have our work/study lives, and social lives. This means that players have only a limited amount of time to play ML on a daily basis, and they are forced to make decisions that would maximise utility.

    In response, one could possibly say that the definition of "maximising utility" could very much be the innate desire to PQ together. A big however would throw a spanner into this chain of thought, as we players have already been conditioned to desire more out of our PQs. Now, there is nothing wrong with desiring more out of our time spent playing PQs, as this simply represents development and growth of a game. However with every action eliciting a equal and opposite reaction, there will always be pushback to any decision that is being made. As such, having some form of rewards to take the place of apples would be consistent in the continued goal to enhance GPQ and the game, overall.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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