Remove Ephenia Elements "strong against holy" - Improve quality of life for paladins

wanpi12456 · Jul 21, 2024

Edit (2024/07/23):
Suggestion: Adjust Element of Ephenia (see 2F LeonardoJF suggestion)
Reason: Improve quality of life for mid-level paladins.
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Suggestion: Remove Ephenia Elements "strong against holy"
Reason: Improve quality of life for paladins

Christmas Event 2021 Balance Changes [Explained]

We believe that all classes should have the option to participate in all the content on our server. The case of elemental immunities outright bar the participation of certain classes at a number of bosses. The biggest casualty being Fire/Poison mages with the overwhelming number of "immune to poison" bosses. Along with removing Pink Bean's "immunity to holy" we decided to remove the bulk of immunities that remained in end game bosses.
Click to expand...

One of the other changes frequently requested from us was to remove Pink Bean's holy resistance. However, while exploring this line of thinking, we realized that without any additional changes, well-geared Bishops could end up knocking back Pink Bean with Genesis. Pairing that up with their ability to clear mini beans, as well as the overall utility they bring to the expedition, we felt that such a change would cause Bishops to become even more overtuned than they already were. That said, we understood the importance of removing holy resistance for the sake of Paladins.
Click to expand...

Explanation:
Ephenia Elements

Boss-er in Ephenia on 2024/07/21 be like:
(1) pallys do 1/4 dpm (-75%) (due to strong against Neutral & Holy)
(2) else physical attackers do 1/2 dpm (-50%) (due to strong against Neutral)
(3) mages do 1/2 dpm (-50%) (due to strong against Lightning, Poison, Holy)
-> Why is it designed this way? Have a better explanation?

For those who has no experience of playing paladin:
(1) pally attack count as physical type.
(2) pally use holy charge (185%) for no element specific bosses eg. HornTail.
fire(175%)/lightning(150%)/ice(125%) charge is inferior than holy(185%).

Equipment on PrEP:
Weapon = NT 1h sword, speed (4), 135wa
Shield = 18wa
Cape = 12wa
Gloves = 14wa
Buff before boss enter:
Echo, SE, Coke pill
***I dodge Stun by tanking it during whole boss run!

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Off topic:
There is wrong information in MapleLegends Library.
Ancient Fairy is "strong against holy, fire, ice" and drops "Ancient Fairy's Wings" in game.

Shining Fairy is "strong against holy, fire, ice" and drops "Shining Fairy's Wings" in game.

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LeonardoJF · Jul 21, 2024

i like an idea of boss be like cwk mage

Kirisame · Jul 21, 2024

wanpi12456 said: ↑

Suggestion: Remove Ephenia Elements "strong against holy"
SPOILER="End game paladin solo ephenia took 12 minutes"
View attachment 59127
Equipment on PrEP:
Weapon = NT 1h sword, speed (4), 135wa
Shield = 18wa
Cape = 12wa
Gloves = 14wa
Buff before boss enter:
Echo, SE, Coke pill
***I dodge Stun by tanking it during whole boss run!

--------------------
Click to expand...

TBH my NL solo ephenia (with 5 mins SE) also took 12 minutes.
Weapon = RC 86wa
Cape = 10wa
Gloves = 15wa
Buff before boss enter:
Echo, SE, Cider

Ainz · Jul 21, 2024

Kirisame said: ↑

TBH my NL solo ephenia (with 5 mins SE) also took 12 minutes.
Weapon = RC 86wa
Cape = 10wa
Gloves = 15wa
Buff before boss enter:
Echo, SE, Cider

Click to expand...

buff nl

CaptainNemo · Jul 21, 2024

Kirisame said: ↑

TBH my NL solo ephenia (with 5 mins SE) also took 12 minutes.
Weapon = RC 86wa
Cape = 10wa
Gloves = 15wa
Buff before boss enter:
Echo, SE, Cider

Click to expand...

Ainz said: ↑

buff nl
Click to expand...

Very similar runtime as my BM.
Level = 163
Weapon = Rev Engaw 131wa
Cape = 5wa 6dex
Gloves = 12wa 6str 8dex
Buffs = SE + Cider

Think i can agree with OP about removing at least the holy resistance, as I don't think a level 190+ character should have a similar runtime as my own, with gear that outpaces mine and has 30 levels on me. Interested and following to see how this turns out.

LeonardoJF · Jul 21, 2024

btw, i have similar time
w/ 155 weapon, 20 shield, 10 mon, 28 scg and bringing si inside

Tommygunner · Jul 21, 2024

MM gangs rise up (all 1% of us that arent mules, anyway)

mard · Jul 21, 2024

Kirisame said: ↑

TBH my NL solo ephenia (with 5 mins SE) also took 12 minutes.
Weapon = RC 86wa
Cape = 10wa
Gloves = 15wa
Buff before boss enter:
Echo, SE, Cider

Click to expand...

Are you getting stunned a lot? My 18x NL is able to solo ephenia in under 5 minutes. For comparison, my 19x bucc is also able to solo in under 5 minutes too so 12 minutes seems unusual.

Subterlabor · Jul 21, 2024

Tommygunner said: ↑

MM gangs rise up (all 1% of us that arent mules, anyway)
Click to expand...

People play mm?

Tommygunner · Jul 21, 2024

Subterlabor said: ↑

People play mm?
Click to expand...

every time you play with my MM you get 1 free echo ticket you can redeem any time

Endorphinss · Jul 22, 2024

I think paladins are very strong as a class and has many many places where they shine. Nothing wrong in having a single boss where they can struggle abit

xadra · Jul 22, 2024

Endorphinss said: ↑

I think paladins are very strong as a class and has many many places where they shine. Nothing wrong in having a single boss where they can struggle abit
Click to expand...

Although I am sad that my super mediocre paladin is flat out unable to kill Ephenia solo (level 173, 144 skull, 15 shield, 14 glove, 4 cape), I'm actually also ok with this lol. Kinda balances out us being stupidly OP for neo tokyo stuff

Soblet · Jul 22, 2024

xadra said: ↑

Although I am sad that my super mediocre paladin is flat out unable to kill Ephenia solo (level 173, 144 skull, 15 shield, 14 glove, 4 cape), I'm actually also ok with this lol. Kinda balances out us being stupidly OP for neo tokyo stuff
Click to expand...

Does it though? I would take that tradeoff every time.

Endorphinss · Jul 22, 2024

xadra said: ↑

Although I am sad that my super mediocre paladin is flat out unable to kill Ephenia solo (level 173, 144 skull, 15 shield, 14 glove, 4 cape), I'm actually also ok with this lol. Kinda balances out us being stupidly OP for neo tokyo stuff
Click to expand...

I don't think it really balances the extremely op potential palas have in nt, this is a mid ranged boss with low value at the end of the day

intimmydator · Jul 22, 2024

I wasted a heart to test for myself before making a comment, but I don't have holy charge yet so it may still be wrong, but when I was using Flame Charge, my range was 6k-13k, Lightning Charge was 5k-11k, and not applying a charge was 7k-14k. So if the penalty is as bad as you say for Holy, can't you just not use an element?

Tested with 147 Pally, 12/124 Hammer, 6/12 Shield, 13 att glove and 4 att cape, 2349-5671 range.

xadra · Jul 22, 2024

Soblet said: ↑

Does it though? I would take that tradeoff every time.
Click to expand...

Lol true

It's like saying yeah i'll give up the ability to buy carrots in exchange for having a free house

Ainz · Jul 22, 2024

xadra said: ↑

Lol true

It's like saying yeah i'll give up the ability to buy carrots in exchange for having a free house
Click to expand...

This is the funniest metaphor

Palladino · Jul 22, 2024

Soblet said: ↑

Does it though? I would take that tradeoff every time.
Click to expand...

Yep. Pallies are perfectly balanced now.

wanpi12456 · Jul 22, 2024

intimmydator said: ↑

I wasted a heart to test for myself before making a comment, but I don't have holy charge yet so it may still be wrong, but when I was using Flame Charge, my range was 6k-13k, Lightning Charge was 5k-11k, and not applying a charge was 7k-14k. So if the penalty is as bad as you say for Holy, can't you just not use an element?

Tested with 147 Pally, 12/124 Hammer, 6/12 Shield, 13 att glove and 4 att cape, 2349-5671 range.
Click to expand...

(1) without element you can't use ACB
(2) Against holy: 185/2=92.5%
Pally without element: 100%
-> Not big different
(3) telling paladin don't use elements is similar as
- telling Hero don't use Combo Attack.
- telling Bow Master use strafe. don't use Hurricane.
- telling Dark Knight don't berzerk.
- telling Night Lord take away SE.
-> why do that? on what purpose?

wanpi12456 · Jul 22, 2024

Endorphinss said: ↑

I think paladins are very strong as a class and has many many places where they shine. Nothing wrong in having a single boss where they can struggle abit
Click to expand...

I've seen many of this kind of speech for many years.
It's tired to say something like that:
JOB(A) is strong in BOSS(B) so they are fine to be struggled in BOSS(C).
-> Why? Reasonable purpose?
-> Mind that pally penalty is doing half damage (50%) than other physical job in Ephenia.

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