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Warrior Analyze end-game WARRIOR bossing dpm of current meta

Discussion in 'Jobs' started by wanpi12456, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. wanpi12456
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    wanpi12456 Timer

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    I'm not 100% sure of hero/dk parts. Please correct me if there is any wrong.
    This analysis is a combination of theory and reality.
    ---
    Last Update : 2021-5-20
    the number about hero with SE is wrong.
    I'll update in the future.
    ---
    2021-4-4 Analyze warrior bossing dpm of current meta
    Spreadsheets
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CDWItO4ixQ0UNzn-0FmXiqC7TEdlXsnGn4_yOkmoNj4/edit?usp=sharing
    ---
    All the data (weapon, equips, skills) are in the spreadsheets.
    +7 claymore / +7 sky ski / 21wa gloves / 14wa cape / 10wa MoN
    ---
    element neutral
    (HT, zak, JC, papu, ravana, verga/b3, griffey, levi, lyka, dodo, dunas, toad)
    Let's check the dpm in theory first.
    lv200 warrior 1 target dpm.png
    pally dpm = 1.056x hero dpm
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm


    pally use blast/holy to 1 target
    pally use ACB/holy to 2 targets
    hero use brandish
    dk use spear crusher
    hero mix 2mins rage + 4mins enrage(26wa buff)
    ---
    2 targets dpm is used for calculate HT right side dpm from theory to reality.
    lv200 warrior 2 targets dpm.png
    pally dpm = 0.631x hero dpm
    (hero dpm = 1.585x pally dpm)
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm


    But seldom of bosses are 2 targets.
    Maybe,
    (1)zak arms
    (2)JC between 1st and 2nd summon
    (3)HT wing+arm
    ---
    Question : You may ask, why there is no "3 targets dpm" ?
    Answer : There is rarely of boss in MapleLegends contain 3 targets for paladin to use acb/holy.
    All i know is zak arms or JC between 2nd and 3rd summon, but those dpm are ignorable.
    There is no point in discussing them.
    ---
    horntail
    In reality.
    Let's simplify to focus on heads dpm. Ignore the arm/wing.
    ---

    horntail left side
    lv200 warrior HT left+mid head dpm.png
    pally dpm = 0.704x hero dpm
    (hero dpm = 1.421x pally dpm)
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm


    pally use blast/holy
    hero use brandish
    dk use spear crusher

    1.While both heads are up (chance=4/9)
    pally stand at middle platform
    hero/dk stand at middle platform

    pally 75% of time hit left head
    pally 25% of time hit mid head
    hero/dk 75% of time hit left head + 25% of time hit air (left head duck)
    hero/dk 100% of time hit mid head

    2.While left head weapon cancel, mid head is up (chance=2/9)
    pally stand at top platform
    hero/dk stand at middle platform

    pally 0% of time hit left head
    pally 75% of time hit mid head + 25% of time hit air (mid head duck)
    hero/dk 0% of time hit left head (left head cancel)
    hero/dk 75% of time hit mid head + 25% of time hit air (mid head duck)

    3.While mid head weapon cancel, left head is up (chance=2/9)
    pally stand at bottom platform
    hero/dk stand at middle/bottom platform

    pally 75% of time hit left head + 25% of time hit air (left head duck)
    pally 0% of time hit mid head
    hero/dk 75% of time hit left head + 25% of time hit air (left head duck)
    hero/dk 0% of time hit mid head (mid head cancel)

    4.While both heads weapon cancel (chance=1/9)
    pally 0% of time hit head
    hero/dk 0% of time hit head

    5.
    pally dpm = blast/holy x0.778
    hero/dk dpm = 1 target x1.167

    *More details in the spreadsheets page "analyze".
    ---
    horntail right side
    lv200 warrior HT mid+right head dpm (no arm_wing).png
    pally dpm = 0.763x hero dpm (100% will be lower than this)
    (hero dpm = 1.311x pally dpm)
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm


    pally use ACB/holy while both heads are up
    pally use blast/holy while both heads are up but right head duck
    pally use blast/holy while 1 of heads is weapon cancel
    hero use brandish
    dk use spear crusher

    1.While both heads are up (chance=4/9)
    pally stand at bottom platform
    hero/dk stand at bottom platform
    pally use mix blast/acb/holy

    pally 75% of time hit both heads with ACB/holy
    pally 25% of time hit mid head with blast/holy
    hero/dk 75% of time hit right head + 25% of time hit air (right head duck)
    hero/dk 100% of time hit mid head

    2.While right head weapon cancel, mid head is up (chance=2/9)
    pally stand at top platform
    hero/dk stand at top platform (maybe there is some better option eg. wing/arm)
    pally use blast/holy

    pally 0% of time hit right head
    pally 75% of time hit mid head + 25% of time hit air (mid head duck)
    hero/dk 0% of time hit right head
    hero/dk 75% of time hit mid head + 25% of time hit air (mid head duck)

    3.While mid head weapon cancel, right head is up (chance=2/9)
    pally stand at bottom platform
    hero/dk stand at bottom platform
    pally use blast/holy

    pally 75% of time hit right head (right head duck)
    pally 25% of time hit mid head (mid head cancel)
    hero/dk 75% of time hit right head + 25% of time hit air (right head duck)
    hero/dk 100% of time hit mid head (mid head cancel)

    4.While both heads weapon cancel (chance=1/9)
    pally 0% of time hit head
    hero/dk 0% of time hit head

    5.
    pally dpm = ACB/holy x0.667 + blast/holy x0.444
    hero/dk dpm = 1 target x1.167
    *If pally mix ACB/blast at right side
    This is good in theory, but bad at practice.
    Since skills of right head animation are too fast, pally is hitting air if right head duck.
    And in reality, pally usually will be ACB on the air.
    pally dpm = 0.763x hero dpm (100% will be lower than this)
    (hero dpm = 1.311x pally dpm)
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm


    *If pally pure blast at right side
    This is actually what pally would do.
    The pally right side dpm is similar to left side.
    pally dpm = 0.704x hero dpm
    (hero dpm = 1.421x pally dpm)
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm


    *More details in the spreadsheets page "analyze".

    3.Data source
    AioriaXAioriaX Making parts of Horntail elementally-weak (link)
    BananaPieBananaPie Increase vertical hitbox for mid head in Horntail (link)
    ---
    cwkpq
    In reality.

    1.When the cleave's 3 bosses are up
    pally use ACB/fire
    rellik is weak to fire
    lv200 warrior cwkpq dpm.png
    pally dpm = 0.696x hero dpm
    (hero dpm = 1.437x pally dpm)
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm


    2.After rellik die, hsalf+red nirg are up
    pally use ACB/fire
    hsalf+red nirg are neutral
    lv200 warrior hsalf+red nirg dpm.png
    pally dpm = 0.597x hero dpm
    (hero dpm = 1.676x pally dpm)
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm


    3.After red nirg die, hsalf is up
    pally use blast/ice
    dpm is same as targa
    (the targa chart dpm x2 for all warriors)
    pally dpm = 1.070x hero dpm
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm

    ---
    scar
    (scar, verga/b2, pianus, bigfoot)
    In reality.
    Consider scar 50% of time weapon cancel.
    pally use blast/fire
    scar weak to fire

    lv200 warrior scar dpm.png
    pally dpm = 1.487x hero dpm
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm

    ---
    targa
    (targa, krexel/b1, manon, hsalf)
    In reality.
    Consider targa 50% of time weapon cancel.
    pally use blast/ice
    targa weak to ice
    lv200 warrior targa dpm.png
    pally dpm = 1.070x hero dpm
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm

    ---
    scar+targa
    In reality.
    Consider scar 50% of time weapon cancel.
    Consider targa 50% of time weapon cancel.
    There are 3 methods for pally to do scarga.
    lv200 warrior scarga dpm.png
    1.pally blast/fire + blast/ice
    pally dpm = (blast/fire + blast/ice) x0.375
    hero/dk dpm = 1 target x1
    pally dpm = 0.959x hero dpm
    (hero dpm = 1.043x pally dpm)
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm

    2.pally mix blast/fire + ACB/ice + blast/ice + ACB/fire
    pally dpm = (blast/fire + blast/ice) x0.25 + (ACB/ice + ACB/fire) x0.125
    hero/dk dpm = 1 target x1
    pally dpm = 0.831x hero dpm
    (hero dpm = 1.203x pally dpm)
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm

    3.pally afk blast/fire + blast/ice
    pally dpm = (blast/fire + blast/ice) x0.25
    hero/dk dpm = 1 target x1
    pally dpm = 0.639x hero dpm
    (hero dpm = 1.564x pally dpm)
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm


    Pally afk blast on scar or targa which summoned earlier.
    Whether it is in weapon cancel or not.
    It happens when range attackers in party are HPless.
    Kill scarga safely.
    ---
    krexel right eye
    (krexel/b2, morgana, ergoth(GuildPQ))
    pally use blast without element charge
    The bosses are strong to holy/fire/lightning/ice.
    lv200 warrior krexel right eye dpm.png
    pally dpm = 0.571x hero dpm
    (hero dpm = 1.752x pally dpm)
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm

    ---
    1 thread can only upload 10 files, so the other pics are at below reply.
    ---
    Not to mention that if the pally use Crushed Skull + Shield, their dpm will be lower than Claymore and decrease by alots with apple.

    To check more paladin dpm in different weapon, please click the link below
    Paladin damage comparison 20wa shield (link)
    ---
     
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  2. OP
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    wanpi12456
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    ---
    nameless
    (verga/b1, nibergen, nameless, headless horseman, lilynouch, crow)
    pally use blast/lightning
    nameless weak to lightning
    lv200 warrior nameless dpm.png
    pally dpm = 1.284x hero dpm
    dk dpm = 0.938x hero dpm

    ---
     
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  3. akashsky
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    akashsky Zakum

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    I'd like to point out 1 technicality for paladin in blast target priority. In Scarga situation, BLAST targets the monster that was summoned first with priority. For example if scarlion is summoned first, then targa is summoned, and your blast can hit both scarlion or targa, blast will prioritize scarlion.

    When a boss dies and changes forms, it counts as being resummoned.

    So if scarlion first body were to die, but targa first body is still up, the paladin blast would target targa first body over scarlion second body.

    This is one of the reasons why paladin can allow third body scarlion to summon spam a bunch of monsters and still keep hitting the third body (basically ignoring the summons like a corsair with homing beacon).
     
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  4. Kirisame
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    Kirisame Stone Golem

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    ???
    I think i managed to hit left+mid head instead.
    Never tried on mid+right head because mid head looks so far away from right.

    Maybe i should try it next time.
     
  5. OP
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    wanpi12456 Timer

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    Would you agree that I just do (blast/fire + blast/ice)/2 as an average dpm?
    I assumed it's like half of the time blast scar and half of the time blast targa within the whole run.
    It might close to be it, if there are many attackers + 1 pally.
    idk hero/dk can or cannot hit mid+right head.
    I assumed they can.
    I'm sure with paladin ACB and blast can hit mid+right head at the right side.
    (1h sword ACB horizontal range is very very tiny. I can hit mid+right head with ACB by standing at the very edge of (right top)bottom platform.)
     
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  6. akashsky
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    akashsky Zakum

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    Its not necessarily (blast fire + blast ice)/2 because your blast will always prioritize the one summoned first. It depends on the summon order. For example, if scarlion summoned first, and scarlion goes into weapon cancel (but targa is open), if you blast ice, you are still hitting scarlion, not targa. In this situation you would want to ACB ice.

    I think that you would need to run a few times with paladin and get some dpm tests in to draw some conclusions on this.
     
  7. Kirisame
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    Kirisame Stone Golem

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    As hero, I can hit left+mid head at the very edge of the left 2nd platform.
    I'll definitely try right+mid head tomorrow.
     
  8. OP
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    wanpi12456 Timer

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    We're saying the same thing.
    But the difference is :
    When I run scarga as a pally, I didn't do ACB/ice while scar weapon cancel.
    I choose to rush the scar abit away from targa.
    Then blast/ice the targa.
    This is one of the reason why I do (blast/fire+blast/ice)/2 as an average dpm.
    Another reason is the summon order issue, it makes sure I can always blast 1 of scar/targa which is earlier summoned.
    ACB/ice will instead lose some dpm.
    At the same time, range attacker can go to top platform to hit the targa.
     
  9. Kirisame
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    Kirisame Stone Golem

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    Why don't you include wing + hand damage as well?
    AFAIK, if there is only 1 cleaver in pt, it's safe to cleave hands when cleaving other target is impossible. (Just don't apple)

    I went to cleave hand + wing whenever one of the left+mid head going weapon cancel.
    At left side, I can hit hand+wing+left head(duck).
    At right side, I can hit hand+wing+right head.
    With buffed attack range at 10k max and SI, it seems safe.
    I asked all our NLs to hit head when possible.
    And our MM was hiting the right hand when the right head being weapon cancel.

    I guess maybe people want to take down heads as soon as possible?
    But wing + hand damage contributes to the entire run also.
     
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  10. OP
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    Counting arm/wing dmg will make the pally dpm look extremely low but you're RIGHT.
    I didn't count them because idk about hero cleaving arm/wing.
    Is it 100% of time hitting right head + wing + right arm?
    Can hero hit right arm 100% of time while it cast every skill?
    I'm willing to hear Hero/Dk sharing your idea.
    Thanks!
     
  11. Kirisame
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    Kirisame Stone Golem

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    I don't really know at the moment.
    Because there are many many numbers popping up and it's difficult to see it clearly.
    I will do more runs and record some videos to find out.
     
  12. Eighty
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    When cleaving right head wings and arms, only the wing is hit 100% of the time. The arm cannot be hit when stretched out from that spot and the head cannot be hit when it leans back to cast a spell. Also, dks and heroes can cleave right head+mid head.
     
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  13. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    This is a tangential observation to your dpm analysis but I find it interesting that, despite SI being very hyped for warriors, the dpm boost of SE for DKs is the same as with SI.
     
  14. Eighty
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    SI allows us A LOT more leeway when jumping rope on mass sed or when dodging pillars in zak and just positioning overall.

    Sorry for going off-topic :eek:
     
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  15. Kirisame
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    Kirisame Stone Golem

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    This is because of how SE works.
    Let's say skill A does 150% damage twice, skill B does 100% damage 3 times, that's 300% vs 300%.
    Comparing the critical condition, skill A will become 250% x2, and skill B will be 200% x3, that's 500% vs 600%.
    Skills with more lines per second gets more boost from SE.
     
  16. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    Yup, heroes also get shafted I heard cuz ACA dmg boost applies after SE procs rather than before.
     
  17. BananaPie
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    Right side head cleave for heroes and dk is theoretically good but practically shit. You'll spend more time trying to find the right spot to cleave than actually cleaving and once you do find the spot you're probably going to fall anyway.

    Paladin right-side with just blast while, not as ideal as being on the left, can still be solid to a degree and adds a bit more versatility to paladin gameplay in HT. Due to the long blast range, it's extremely easy to find the right spot to hit both the right and mid head. I've yielded as high as 8.3-8.4m dpm 45 with rage/mw20/si/se/echo doing right side pally strats. Just blasting and no acbing.

    Also for scarga - magnet works the same as with blast priority. Meaning an uncharged magnet will pull scarlion and scarlion only if scarlion has spawned first. So if it cancels, pull it back with magnet and keep targa pinned right to use ice charge blast. Targa occasionally does its skill where it goes out but it'll be better uptime than trying to acb ice. Rush works as well but magnet is by far more superior when it comes to this.

    I also want to point out that using ACB when both heads are not cancelled is extremely pepega as ACB only works if it comes into contact with something. If that right head moves down, you wont come into contact with anything and you swing on air.
    The 1/1 gives a bit of time to allow you to switch from acb to blast, and so does the lightning breath. But the fast lightning is an instant attack where the right head ducks immediately and so you end up wasting a few ACB hits because there's no leeway to switch to blast at that moment.
     
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  18. Imberos
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    Imberos Orange Mushroom

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    Hmm interesting, maybe to add 1v4 dpm aswell?
    Cuz JC is kinda tricky to compare
    I tried to work with the cwkpq numbers to do this. At cwk ACB hits 3 mobs but 1 is fire weak so technically 3.5 mobs. Using this i assume pallies are 0.795x heroes at JC when all 3 mobs and 1 boss are alive

    Edit: if im understanding currectly what akash said, pallies can keep using blast at JC and not fall tp ACB
     
  19. OP
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    wanpi12456 Timer

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    I re-adjusted the SCAR / TARGA / SCARGA 3 charts few mins ago.
    Weapon cancel is now considered.
    The weapon cancel should be calculated when we talk about weapon cancel with blast/acb and mechanism of summoned layer.
    It is closer to reality right now.

    Off Topic :
    Pally's skill Threaten description is kinda misleading.
    "Use MP to temporarily threaten a monster. Decreases the level of weapon attack and weapon defense of every monster around the area."

    I tested threaten on Horntail main body, threaten only affect 6 targets.

    After HT body summoned.
    6 targets in HT body are leg, tail, wing, left arm, right arm, right head.
    Left head and mid head aren't affected.

    After leg and tail died.
    6 targets in HT are wing, left arm, right arm, right head, left head, mid head.

    It is some sort of summon layer mechanism.
    This is why pally hit the left head rather than mid head.
    This is why pally hit the right head rather than mid head.
    This is why pally hit the wing rather than left arm or right arm.
    This is why pally hit the zak/scar/targa b2 summon rather than zak/scar/targa b3.

    So the summon layer is like :
    (tail, leg, wing) >> (left arm, right arm) >> right head >> left head >> mid head
    , from early to lately.

    It also happened in zak arm.
    I cannot threaten all of 8 arms because threaten only affect 6 targets max.
     
  20. Kirisame
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    Kirisame Stone Golem

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    There are 4 spots for Hero, DK to cleave.

    A: left head (no duck) + mid head
    B: leg + wing + left hand + left head (duck)
    C: right head + mid head
    D: right head + wing + right hand

    [​IMG]

    As BananaPie said, spot C is very difficult to find. And once you've knocked back (to left), you will have to climb all the way up.

    It turns out the strategy above makes left hand cast mass seduce too early in this run.
    So, here is a updated version:

    1. Before tail down, cleave at spot B.
    2. After tail down, cleave at spot B when mid head is in weapon cancel, otherwise, cleave at spot A.
    3. After left head down, cleave at spot D.
    4. After wing down, cleave at spot C when mid head is not in weapon cancel, otherwise, cleave at spot D.
    5. After right head down, there is nothing to cleave, just attack mid head when it's not in weapon cancel, otherwise hand.

    More experiment and observation is required to give the percentage of the rate or efficiency.

    And I only HT-ed 4 times in Legends, so fellow heros and DKs please share if you have better strategy.

    Also, I'm interested in how the right side first strategy works.
    I guess if apple-ed, it's better to go right side after the tail is down, to prevent early mass from left hand.
     

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