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Paladin end game weapon comparison: Crushed Skull Vs Dragon Claymore

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by akashsky, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. akashsky
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    akashsky Nightshadow

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    I asked around what the best end game weapon for paladin is and most people told me its either crushed skull or stonetooth sword. However, dragon claymore is actually 4 weapon attack stronger than stonetooth sword (the speed advantage that ST has over the claymore is 100% negated when you have the SI buff).

    So, I want to go ahead and do a quick comparison between these two weapons and different levels of funding to see what is the best weapon to use.

    I will be comparing 3 levels of funding.
    1. Dirt poor / poverty - You barely have any mesos. You only have a few tens of millions of mesos to fund your character.

    2. Mid tier funding - You got a decent amount of mesos, a few hundred millions.

    3. Perfect tier funding - you got billions. Perfect weapons high att cape gloves you name it.

    How I will be comparing the weapons:
    To compare the weapons, I am going to use the maplestory damage formula. Which, as stated by ayumilove is:
    MAX = (Primary Stat + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100
    MIN = (Primary Stat * 0.9 * Skill Mastery + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100

    So, Skill mastery is going to be 60% for paladins. By taking the above equations adding them up and dividing by 2, i can get a new equation called AVE (for average).

    AVE = (Primary Stat*0.77 + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100

    Ok Cool. We have our formula. The next thing is to figure out what primary stat and secondary stat are. These terms differ from weapon to weapon.

    For 2H swords (Dragon claymore):
    Two Handed Sword
    Primary: STR * 4.6
    Secondary: DEX


    -------------------------------------------------------

    For 1H BW (Crushed Skull):
    One Handed Axe/BW/Wand/Staff (Swinging)
    Primary: STR * 4.4
    Secondary: DEX

    One Handed Axe/BW/Wand/Staff (Stabbing)
    Primary: STR * 3.2
    Secondary: DEX

    Now I've run into a problem. There are two different formula's for 1H BW. However, I know that the swing / stab ratio is 60:40. So What i can do to find the average here is take the swinging stat multiply it by 0.6, then take the stabbing stat and multiply it by 0.4

    Then I can add those two together to get a new formula for 1H BW - its average.

    For 1H BW (Crushed Skull) Average:
    Primary: STR*3.92
    Secondary: Dex


    Ok, now lets plug these numbers back into the general damage formula.

    Damage formula 2H sword:
    AVE = (STR*3.542 + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100

    Damage Formula 1H BW:
    AVE = (STR*3.0184 + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100

    Now I will make a few assumtions.

    1. Both players have the same total dex and strength (note that this is false because shields also give STR, but I will take that into account later)

    2. Both players have the same external weapon attack (from cape, glove, and attack potion)

    So, now to compare the two weapons, all I need to do is compare the above equations to each other, and whichever ends up being higher is the better weapon.

    So I will be comparing the following to each other.

    Weapon Attack * 3.542 (For 2H sword) VS Weapon attack * 3.0184 (for 1h BW).

    Also to take into account that shields can give extra STR, I will simply add extra weapon attack to the shield at the ratio of 5 str = 1 weapon attack.

    Case 1: Povery / Poor Player
    As a poor player you are not going to spend anything on scrolling. You just get an average clean weapon and 100% scroll it. The crushed skull player gets lucky and happens to find a +4/7 scrolled stolen fence for attack.

    We only have 8 attack work gloves because thats the best we can afford. We also have a 2 attack black raggedy cape (they are super cheap, only 1-2m). Also, we are smart and use warrior elixirs. Its super cheap, only 5k for an additional 12 attack.

    Crushed Skull Player:
    Weapon: 115+7 = 122
    Glove: 0+8 = 8
    Cape: 2+0 = 2
    Shield: 8 attack, 4 str = 8.8
    Attack pot: 0 +12 = 12
    Total attack: 152.8

    Dragon Claymore Player:
    Weapon: 105+7 = 112
    Glove: 0+8 = 8
    Cape: 2+0 = 2
    Shield: 0 + 0 =0
    Attack pot: 0+12 = 12
    Total attack: 134

    Comparison:
    Sword: 134*3.542 = 474.628
    Skull: 152.8*3.0184 = 458.7968

    Ergo, The dragon claymore player wins by about 3.5%


    Case 2: Mid funded player

    You finally got some mesos now and are a mid funded player. You got a nice weapon, with 2 30s landed and 5 60s landed.

    The crushed skull player has an even better shield. With 2 30s landed and 5 60s/70s landed as well.

    You have upgraded your gloves to 12 attack.

    You also found a cheap 4 attack 0 slot cape.

    Now that you are a mid tier player, you don't use warrior elixirs anymore. You only use ciders or the cash shop bear, which give +20 attack instead of 12.

    Crushed Skull Player:
    Weapon: 115+20 = 135
    Glove: 0+12 = 12
    Cape: 4+0 = 4
    Shield: 16 attack, 9 str = 17.8
    Attack pot: 0 +20 = 20
    Total attack: 188.8

    Dragon Claymore Player:
    Weapon: 105+20 = 125
    Glove: 0+12 = 12
    Cape: 4+0 = 4
    Shield: 0 + 0 =0
    Attack pot: 0+20 = 20
    Total attack: 161

    Comparison:
    Sword: 161*3.542 = 570.262
    Skull: 188.8*3.0184 = 569.874

    Ergo dragon claymore BARELY wins by 0.06%. But this is so small its safe to say they are EQUAL.

    It is worth noting however, that funding the shield does make the skull's players build a bit more expensive.

    Case 3: Perfect funding Scenario

    You got a perfect weapon, perfect glove, high attack cape, and of course, you only use onxy apples.

    The skull player has a perfect maple shield as well.

    Crushed Skull Player:
    Weapon: 120+35 = 155
    Glove: 0+21 = 21
    Cape: 4+11 = 15
    Shield: 30 attack, 20 str = 34
    Attack pot: 0 + 100 = 100
    Total attack: 325

    Dragon Claymore Player:
    Weapon: 110+35 = 145
    Glove: 0+21 = 21
    Cape: 4+11 = 15
    Shield: 0 + 0 =0
    Attack pot: 0+100 = 100
    Total attack: 281

    Comparison:
    Sword: 281*3.542 = 995.302
    Skull: 325*3.0184 = 980.98

    Ergo dragon claymore wins by 1.46%.

    TLDR:

    Dragon claymore is the stronger weapon when you have little funding and perfect funding. And it is just ever so SLIGHTLY stronger at medium funding.

    The difference isn't that large, so I would say it is safe to call both weapons viable.

    However, in reality, I think crushed skull is strictly inferior to the dragon claymore because the dragon claymore does more damage without needing a shield - and shields are very expensive. You are basically spending more mesos to do less damage as a crushed skull user.

    However, if you enjoy using blunt weapons, use blunt weapons. The difference is only 1-3%.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
  2. Rockler
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    Rockler Dark Stone Golem

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    30att shield seemsgoodman
    Even for a funded person 21att is pretty much max
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Selkie Jr.

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    No wonder the poor players are poor, they're shelling out 5k for 12 attack potions when they could be spending 3k on Coke Zero Pills. SlimeCry

    For mid-funding wouldn't the Stonetooth still be better though? I imagine a lot of the players in that tier either don't have or don't want to use an SI mule. Really I'm a pretty big fan of just having tons of weapons for tons of situations anyway. It keeps things unique when you have more stuff to scroll and use different stuff for different bosses or if you're partying with a bucc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Tan
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    Tan Slime

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    Just get 2 swords- ST when there is no SI and claymore when there is SI.
    Trust me getting a decent wa on ST and claymore is easier then scrolling a decent crushed skull and shield.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Selkie Jr.

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    Don't Crushed Skulls drop from CWKPQ now? There's quite a few of them on the market now, you don't have to farm badges for days to get them anymore. Max attack Crushed Skull costs a lot less than a max attack Stonetooth now, so it's the Claymore that's probably the easiest of the bunch.
     
  6. Tan
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    Tan Slime

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    Yup for sure claymore is the best..i have a 139wa crushed skull + 20wa shield actually and a 126wa claymore. Both of them actually do the same dpm and obviously claymore is easier to scroll. Just go for claymore homies!

    Even though crushed skull its an easy drop from CWKPQ..u still need si with crushed skull so might as well buy some 101-104wa st and throw 30s on it.

    You gotta have a weapon to use when there is no SI, so the best wep is ST.
     
  7. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Nightshadow

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    Yeah I def agree with those who posted above that ST is better than claymore without SI. But for this post i wanted to compare claymore and crushed skull since both weapons have similar price points and i was given conflicting opinions as to which was better.

    Also they have the same attack speed so they are very easy to compare!
     
  8. itzjaheezy
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    itzjaheezy Pink Teddy

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    Personally I'd rather still go for a Crushed Skull, I get accuracy and Guardian. Can't kill things if I can't hit them or die. :^)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  9. thirdroom
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    thirdroom Red Snail

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    good post, for some reason people believe skulls to be a miracle weapon when they're actually pretty average. some other points to consider:

    claymore
    • more range (far better for bf and lets you hit ht left arm+head )
    • better to train with (range + stable damage is really good after hammering 225k+ HP mobs, i got 7-10% better eph at 7f using claymore over skull)
    • can make them yourself (a bit expensive, but all the materials readily available)
    skull
    • guardian skill unlocked sometime after lv160+ (saves mesos on pots and your life occasionally, also basically makes stance 91.5%)
    • 10-14 accuracy (useful for going low dex and still hitting certain mobs/bosses)
    • you'll hit the 199k damage cap on fire charge a bit faster (could be a pro or con depending on your viewpoint)
    • pretty reliant on people selling them to obtain (exchange quest blows and i've gone 60+ cwkpqs without getting one)
    • expect to spend a loooot on a shield (was stated in the op but yeah it's a pretty big flaw)
    • if you go hybrid pally for the extra range from 2h swords, you'll be missing SP for threaten/elemental charges/mp recovery
    • bw's are still somehow objectively doper than swords
    i'll say from experience that it honestly doesn't matter much in the end (i use bw's 99% of the time), but the truth is skulls don't have many upsides to them when compared to claymores.
     
  10. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Game Moderator Staff Member Game Moderator

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    I'm pretty sure due to 2H sword's attack multiplier they get a better jump while on higher attack pots, but with perfect items and say cider the latter should win out. (Similar case with RK VS ST)
     
  11. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Nightshadow

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    I still think that if you want to use crushed skull solely because it works with guardian, you need to have SI or else you are kinda better off going for a red katana or speargrave 1H sword, because you can hit speed cap with those weapons. But if you have SI, I do believe that crushed skull should win out in the end compared to 1H swords (since it has a lot more base weapon attack and its average multiplier is very, very close to that of 1H swords).
     
  12. itzjaheezy
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    itzjaheezy Pink Teddy

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    Yeah I feel the same too haha, I just like maces better xD
     
  13. ngrman
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    ngrman Orange Mushroom

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    If claymore is theoretically better dps endgame, I would go with that as you only need to perfect 7 slots vs 17 slots
     
  14. Rockler
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    Rockler Dark Stone Golem

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    Or just make a NL
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  15. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Windraider

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    Until Timeless Niblehem shows up. Also isnt NT 2 handed sword better? o.o
     
  16. Tan
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    Tan Slime

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    In the end, just pick sword over crushed skull no matter what weapon it is. If you can get NT weps do it, if you cant just use the lower tier ones.
     
  17. ngrman
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    ngrman Orange Mushroom

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    It's better by 3 atk and 3 str, but the idea still stands, you only need to perfect 7 slots instead of 17 with the bw and shield combo.
     
  18. BurnWithin
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    BurnWithin Red Snail

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  19. OP
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    akashsky
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    akashsky Nightshadow

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    Are you sure that you ran a fair comparison? That means same external attack (cape, gloves, shoes) and same stat giving gear?

    Also are you sure you are including an attack potion?
     
  20. BurnWithin
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    BurnWithin Red Snail

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    Of Course it is, but now i i found something weird about that calculator
    the dpm of Crushed Skull is unbelievable sky high from MW10 to 20
    compare to ST that look more correct
    [​IMG]
     

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