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Some feedback in regards to the gacha revamp

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by Autoassemble, Oct 20, 2015.

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  1. Autoassemble
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    Autoassemble Selkie Jr.

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    To begin this thread I will start out by saying that I as a player appreciate the newly added content as well as the bug fixes, and I feel like most if not all of the changes that were made were good ones.

    To dig a bit deeper I will address the main issue that I think have been created by the new changes, as well as suggestions as to how to improve the server by fixing it.

    The gacha revamp and the effects that it has had.
    I strongly believe that gacha had a much to strong influence on the market in the past, and I really like the fact that the items have been spread in such a way that the item distribution is more logical (class items are found in gacha that belongs to the home city of said class)

    With that said, it does not feel like the items which are hugely desirable by the server such as pink adventurer cape, chaos scrolls, white scrolls etc have been made easier to obtain (if anything I havent seen a single person get one since the update (assuming that it is displayed in an item smega as most rare items))
    With that being the case it seems as an almost insurmountable task to even begin to strive towards perfect items.
    Another issue that has arisen from the gach revamp is also the fact that there is an even greater lack of scrolls. The fact that the main (and sometimes only) source of these scrolls are from gach paired along with the spreading of them between all the gachas has lead to a sharp decline in availability which is going towards an almost complete lack of scrolls that players need to try and improve their items.

    To address this issue, I feel like the gach revamp needs to be paired with these items being released from the prison that is gacha. This goes double for scrolls which are class specific and only obtainable from gach because there is no way for players to actually obtain the scrolls that they need besides scanning the fm constantly while hoping to find singular scrolls which are going to be over priced like crazy due to the huge demand with next to no supply. Some classes already have mobs which can drop the scrolls that they need, while others are left with no options other than to wait and hope for a lucky lottery of them or another player that could sell it to them.

    To address the more rare items that are only available through gach such as pink adventurer cape, chaos scrolls, white scrolls etc. I feel like these items should also be obtainable through hard work and game play. I am not saying that they need to be removed from gach, but by allowing players to work towards the better stats that these items can provide you are giving the players a reason to keep playing and spending time on the server. This sort of situation could be created in many ways, ranging from extremely rare mob drops, to boss drops or custom questlines.
     
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  2. zook
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    zook Capt. Latanica

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    yeah overall dex 30% is like 7.5 mill now , 30% o/a int 10m , earring int 30 8 mill .. scrolls like that arent gonna be found soon and their only going to go up ..

    people only gach at kerning / nautilus now or others gach wehre they need shit .. i still dont know where pink capes come from now and the fact that zip doesnt give out cetain scrolls in the next month every 30% scroll that is of an armor scroll , will be over 10 mill

    we don't have enough mesos in the server to stop inflation , so 1 person can do it (futureduper i mean futurelegendz) if he isnt banned yet will quadrouple his already 2 bill mesos and he will run the server

    you cant just cut out the scrolls mush shrine gach gave and limit them down to 80% less of a chance and not expect a single person to inflate them and the prices to double in 3 days .. its obvious because its happening as we speak lol go check out the fm its ridiuclous now

    i personally have made 40 mill selling GPQ scrolls and shit like that , it aint worth it man its not
     
  3. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Rates is still something we will play with and change over time. We did purpose start extremely low on the "god" items because if its too low we can easily fix it by increasing it but if it starts too high than the server could as well be horrible destroyed.

    We'll look into the stated complains here.
     
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  4. Redwine
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    Redwine Capt. Latanica

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    I'm really glad this came up because I've been meaning to talk about it as well.

    First, lets be precise; "inflation" is different from "price level". Inflation is the rate of change of price levels. We did not see inflation from the gach revamp. We saw a one-time increase in price levels that looks like inflation because it is so dramatic and the market still has not completely adjusted. What I mean is, once prices stabilize and OA INT30s reach 40m and chaos scrolls reach 300m, it will probably stay there.

    Fixing inflation for a MMORPG is a huge topic of study and a problem for all MMORPGs. Inflation in maplelegends is too high because we dont have any real meso sinks, but that is a topic for another day.

    What the gach revamp has done is absolutely destroyed the price levels to the point where only a handful of players will be able to afford scrolls and even then only very few. When everyone has hundreds of millions of mesos and only a handful of scrolls to buy with it, they will fight for that scroll, and prices will be grossly high.

    This is a problem, because:

    Reason 1
    Suddenly changing price levels unfairly advantages those who "got in" earlier. As it is, it is now pretty much impossible to scroll things that were easily scrollable before the gach revamp. Many players who have been here before the revamp have items that just ARE NO LONGER OBTAINABLE. Example: MoofinMoofin sold a 6/7 70'ed dragon khanjar for 200m today. I received an offer for a 6int/11ma shield for 150m today. Before the revamp, these would've been lucky to be worth half that, and therefore we make out like bandits (pun intended Kappa).

    I thought the gach revamp would be an adjustment of WHERE scrolls could be found, not the RATES at which they were found. Once you tinker with the RATES, which looks like was done here, you change price levels and are asking for trouble.

    Reason 2
    Every mapler's guilty pleasure is scrolling. The excitement when we drag that scroll to our precious item, as our hearts skip a beat and we pray to the RNG gods as we all perform our nerdy superstitious rituals... that excitement (along with the resulting nice gear we all want for our characters) is now being denied to a chunk of the playing population. That is a part of the nostalgia for every mapler.


    I really am fine with the fact that gach is not shrine-centric anymore. We just need gach (now at multiple locations, not just shrine) to pump out scrolls at the same rates as before. NaviNavi said the staff didn't want the economy to be so focused on gach. Well, given that's where all our scrolls come from (cuz lets face it, scrolls from mob drops are just a drop in the bucket compared to gach scrolls), it kind of has to be. :unsure:
     
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  5. OP
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    Autoassemble
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    Autoassemble Selkie Jr.

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    You make great points here, but I really just wanna re-iterate what I said in my thread:
    "By allowing players to work towards the better stats that these items can provide you are giving the players a reason to keep playing and spending time on the server."

    I feel like this is a huge part of the reason why a lot of players on this server just feel like they have nothing to do and are just bored in general; because they do not have the ability to work towards making better items.
     
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  6. Noods
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    Noods Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    Rather than the god items such as white scrolls or chaos scrolls, I am more concerned about 30% scrolls in particular, as they have increased prices to an unbelievable degree. Just as a single example, GFMA 30s used to be 4-5m before the revamp. They are selling for 8m now. On average (based on pure observation and not science), it seems like most 30% scroll prices have risen by 60-80%. I'm not sure if this has as much to do with rates rather than the fact that they are now all spread out and the supply simply isn't like before when everyone gached at Shrine. But I suppose this was the end objective of the revamp - to buff the other gach locations and make sure people actually use them.
     
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  7. United
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    United Skelegon

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    Im my opinion the fact that you can obtain 30% weapon scroll for some class but other classes you cant just make the other unobtamable scrolls too expansive.
    Claw gun and knockler can be sold for 15mil this days while spear is around 1.5.
     
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  8. OP
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    Autoassemble Selkie Jr.

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    Yes, all weapon scrolls should be available as monster drops.
     
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  9. Redwine
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    Redwine Capt. Latanica

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    Please this. I really dont want to have to buy nautilus gach tickets off people and have them gach on twitch so I know what they're getting.

    MapleF6
     
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  10. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    I agree entirely with this thread! Once again, people are bringing up something which has been brought up months ago. How many of you remember this thread? How many were even playing around this time?

    http://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/comprehensive-gashapon-redistribution-list.3288/

    Basically, the thread has a bunch of suggestions for items that can only be found through gash. The exact means and what mob drops what doesn't really matter... The point was merely to try to get the ball rolling, so that it would be possible to obtain certain gash-only items from normal gameplay.

    So after the gash revamp, here we are again. Let me say first that on one hand I like the concept of the gash revamp, in that it does kind of make sense to have class-specific items come from the gashapons that seem appropriate. But on the other hand, this seems to have extremely averse effects on people who are seeking scrolls for an unpopular class.

    Let's take Redwine for instance. The only place to get gun 30% is from gashapon. Maybe only the nautilus gashapon now? If not, mixed into one of the more randomish ones at a much lower rate.. The thing is, there are very few pirates on the server. They just aren't a popular class. But if she really wants to play a corsair as an attacker and keep up with other players, she needs 30% gun scrolls badly. She has even been PAYING people to spend their nx at nautilus and look for it. I wouldn't say it's been a very fruitful endeavor. Because who wants pirate gears? Not many people tbh. It's not a profitable place to gash for people. So they just don't go there. This means there's even less of the scrolls Redwine needs.

    Here's a revolutionary idea though: if we really wanted to make the economy not dependent on gash, wouldn't the obvious thing to do be making it possible to obtain these items outside of gash? I think it's only fair too. Dagger and claw 30% DO drop from mobs (pro tip: try night ghosts), as do 2h sword, spear, wand, crossbow. But other weapon scrolls like gun do not. It makes the playing field very unfair to have to rely on a slot machine that scams you 19/20 times.
     
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  11. beamcasting
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    i actually did see "sean" get one
     
  12. xquzion
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    xquzion Capt. Latanica

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    can confirm, took me 45 tickets tho and nothing else usefull but potspam
     
  13. tyys1337
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    tyys1337 Master Chronos

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    Why dont Make attack scrolls obtainable from some mob at such low rate like cfa 30 from nightghost ?
    Same with Overall 30s and gfma 30 ... There are No scrolls which inflate the price into sky ...
     
  14. Boggyb
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    Boggyb Master Chronos

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    This really is the only thing that will fix this mess now.
     
  15. Doap
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    Doap Mixed Golem

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    I'll play devil's advocate here and say that I don't want all weapon scrolls to be obtained through drops.
    I understand for some classes it's a disadvantage, but every class comes with disadvantages, and lack of obtainable scrolls is something you'd have to cope with.
    deal with it.

    Also, the way things are now (after revamp) is the closest you'll ever get to a 2008ish "gms-type" experience in terms of gaching, gach rewards, and availability in the fm.
    Not everyone had nx back in the day whereas everyone here has unlimited. A week ago there was way too many gachable items in the fm and they were all dirt cheap.
    Now that everyone has the ability to gach, they kill the rates so it balances out and "rare" items are still rare. This is how you keep gach costing nx but not equating to free mesos.

    This update was nothing but legit to me.

    Cheers Staff.
     
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  16. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    There's a difference between classes having different advantages/disadvantages centered around gameplay and how their skills work and simply not having access to scrolls and equipments that everyone else does have. You simply can't balance the game - AT ALL - with such a disparity.
     
  17. Doap
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    Doap Mixed Golem

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    When game skills aren't going to be redone, nerfed, or buffed on a large scale the only thing you can change is outside aspects that are reflected in how a class plays the game.
     
  18. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    And do you think that statement makes any sense at all for pirates?? Most people would say that pirates were initially designed poorly and just not a strong/popular class. If your idea of balancing a weak class is making their 30% scrolls nearly impossible to find, you are probably qualified to be sitting in a Neckson boardroom.
     
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  19. BwanDit
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    BwanDit Motertert

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    In my honest opinion, since we can only receive 5k NX per day and with vote abusers being banned, I believe that the % chance of junk items gained from Gachapon should be reduced.

    The reasons for my opinion are that;

    - The player base just simply isn't large enough.

    If (for simplicity's sake) the chances are 1/1000 to obtain a white scroll, then most likely (let's just say there are 200 active players) it will require every person to Gacha approximately 5 times before we can get 1 white scroll.

    The problem is that NX on this server has a limit of 5K NX per day, NX wasn't a problem on GMS since there was such a large user base and the fact that people could spend hundreds of pounds on Gachapon tickets, meaning they had a good reason to make the rarer Gachapon items come at a low rate. Whereas here, it's having an adverse effect on the market.

    - A vast majority of people don't want to waste their NX.

    Hell, I need to reset a LOT of AP, which will take me around ~90 days of voting. I'd also like to maybe change a few cosmetic details of my character, which will be about another 5 days voting. I honestly cannot afford to use Gachapon right now, unless I don't mind my character having really bad stats I guess. Sure Gachapon is nice and all, but honestly I feel each time I Gachapon, I just get [​IMG] 'd over.

    I'm sure a lot of other people are washing away their INT or just making a nice outfit for themselves (or spending thousands of NX on that one random hairstyle they want)

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Anyway, I feel as if trying to make it too GMS-like will be the downfall of the server.

    Not because we don't like the challenge, but just because GMS = GMS, MapleLegends = MapleLegends, we don't have hundreds and thousands of active players, we don't have NX that you can purchase.

    These core fundamentals already make it impossible to be GMS-like.

    I do like GMS-like rates and GMS-like events, however having a GMS-like Gachapon is going to cause the market to become so inflated that people starting here aren't going to want to stay.

    If you think about it, the players who are higher level are already going to be consistently farming mesos and with nothing to spend those mesos on apart from Gach items, everyone is going to be aiming to buy this or buy that.

    Soon, people will be bidding 50m on clean DKhanjars... Kappa


    Anyway, all I'm saying is that people can farm mesos, you can't farm Gach items. Therefore mesos<Gach items.

    Everyone has mesos, not everyone has Gacha items. What purpose do mesos have, except for buying pots really?

    I mean, godly statted weapons, sure you can buy them, but no one has enough scrolls to make one. (bar a few lucky people) For example, right now, I'd prefer having a +7 30%'d dagger than 10b. Simply because even if I had 10b, what is there to spend it on? Sure I could buy all the dagger scrolls in FM for 7M each, but then my attempt at making another dagger would most likely fail. Dagger scrolls probably aren't the best thing to base this on, as you can actually farm dagger scrolls (albeit at a low-rate, but still)


    I love the fact the server is GMS-like, it brings back nostalgia and everything else, but people just need to realise, the playerbase isn't GMS-like, no private server player base will ever come CLOSE to GMS-like, so having a Gacha system based upon limited factors (e.g 5k NX/Day) isn't entirely a bad idea, slowly the market will fill, but the prices of the market are just going to be absolutely disgusting.




    TL;DR - If it the gacha stays the same, I'm just worried everything will become really expensive.
     
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  20. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    I want to agree with BwanDit here! The server being GMS .. "like" is a good thing in a way. But there are many things about GMS I don't care for. I didn't like GMS beginning to become pay2win, I didn't like a lot of the immature jerks, I didn't like the FM spammers, botters, and meso sellers, I didn't like the hackers and dupers, and I didn't like the ridiculously inflated prices.

    I did warn everyone though. Inflation is coming. You think what we are seeing now is something to be alarmed about? It's nothing compared to what is to come. Right now we are seeing what happens when players who have hundreds of millions of mesos get impatient and don't want to wait to find good deals. The supply chain of goods from gash suddenly came to a halt. We didn't know there was much of a problem because as long as the mesos kept changing hands, it looked like it was worth something. Without a constant supply of goods, people are starting to realize how little their money can actually buy.

    Billions of mesos are just floating around in the server already, and they don't have any purpose except to buy pots, which are quite a bargain if you are buying from NLC. Unless measures are taken to give the mesos a real worth, like something valuable and highly-sought-after they can be exchanged for, inflation will always be present until it becomes unmanageable.

    Sorry for the derailing. Ah, I know. A NPC should sell gash tickets for mesos. Quick suggestion: you must be level 75, and the price for one ticket is 100k. Every time you buy a ticket on that account, the cost increases by 10k. Every week at a certain time, the cost is cut in half (to a minimum of 100k). The idea needs polishing, but the intention is clear. We can completely remove mesos from the server this way and begin draining them, while at the same time increase the supply of goods people need. The increasing/decreasing price function attempts to find an equilibrium for charging the right price for a gash ticket. However, since the price starts off low, even poorer players can buy a reasonable amount of gash tickets compared to much richer players.
     
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