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Buccaneer tweaks

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by KurayamiLove, Nov 30, 2020.

  1. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    8:08 AM
    KurayamiLove/Nagrom/Amatista
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    Halcyon
    ~Charge touch damage tweak~
    One of the most important skills in the Buccaneer arsenal is charge, getting full charge is a big thing for Buccs except for one aspect: Touch damage. When you make contact with a mob you deal touch damage (this damage is based on your dmg instead of the dmg you take), this doesn't sound too bad until you realize it does trigger reflect damage on top of the touch damage that the boss may do to you, in Pink Bean this is always a one-shot 24k touch + 15k reflect damage.

    Possible fixes:
    1-Give Charge a spot with the other skills in the top right of the screen so when reflect is a threat you can just cancel the skill. This would also help Buccs to keep track of the duration o the skill.
    2-Make it ignore the damage reflect. Not too big of a change since the touch dmg isn't too high but this also can be toned down to 1 during reflects just it won't proc the reflect damage that is lethal to Buccaneer during Pink Bean.

    ~Energy Orb and Snatch scale up~
    Snatch is an awesome skill and Energy Orb is kinda underrated, both share the same issue: Awful skill level scaling, this issue makes both skill worthless until they are high level.

    Possible fixes:
    1-Increase the number of mobs hit from 2 to 4 at level 1 and increase the mobs hit by 1 on levels 11 and 21. In Snatch, the number of mobs hit really matters and is really sad that you need level 25 to hit 6, in Energy Orb case perhaps this would make it a bit better in circumstances where there are a lot of mobs and perhaps can out dmg Energy Blast.

    2-Perhaps reduce the maximum level of one of the skills from 30 to 20 so Buccaneer has more SP to max other skills (With the new MW30 we can no longer max SI, and even before that we couldn't max Heros Will). This one is up to debate.

    3-Increase the base damage of both skills. The damage at lower levels is very low so increasing it while keeping the maximum damage intact would make this skill better at lower levels. Perhaps Orb lv1 could be 600% instead of 300% scaling up 10% per level, perhaps a similar change for Snatch 300% at lv1 +10% dmg per level. These are just suggestions and numbers could be changed to fit better, all up to debate.

    ~Oak Barrel fix~
    Did you get stuck in your barrel and your step-bro is nowhere near to help you? too bad cos you will have to commit sudoku.

    Possible fix:
    Make this skill undispellable like Super Transformation, this fix is simple and effective and I don't this will change the skill usage besides now you won't get stuck.

    ~Stun Mastery tweak~

    How Stun Mastery works now is very weird, to understand a bit better how the skill works you need to know how critical hits work.
    Critical hits do not multiply your damage all they do is add % on top of the % of the skill you are using, for example, SE says you do 40% extra damage but it actually adds 140% to the % of your skill when you crit. Now when comes to Stun Mastery, the description says it adds 60% so you may think it +160% but actually no, it adds +60%, then you may argue well on this skill the description is accurate but again, it actually isn't. The +60% only applies when you have no SE but when you do have SE it adds +160% on top of the 140% that SE provides.

    Possible fix:
    Altho I don't know if this is possible to fix it would be nice it was always 160% without the need to get SE to get the full potential of the skill, even then SE will highly increase the damage on stunned monster anyway.


    These are some quality of life changes that it would be cool to see. Let me know what you think, have a good day!
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  2. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    WeenieHutJrs
    This suggestion tells a lot about how i'm still noob in maple, especially about pirates.

    didn't know dmg reflection + energy charge bodyattack combo can oneshot bucc in PB.
    didn't know you can't escape barrel w/o getting hit by. omegaLUL

    I still have no in-depth knowledge about bucc so I have no opinion about other suggestions, but above two are....just... ahaha...
    way too much imo.
     
  3. joota
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    joota Mr. Anchor Retired Staff

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    Do heroes/paladins with power guard also get 1 shot by PB with touch damage while in DR status?
     
  4. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    So i was curioused about this also, I asked to some pros, and they answered me "it does"
    what matter is, they have choice - they can just avoid this terrible situation with not using PG.
    who cares about reducing 30%ish body attack dmg when you just use pelixir, or ales, for every 2 hits KO anw.

    problem is, bucc has no option to disable that body attacking, unless they just become SI/TL mule and do no any attacks, which is ridiculous, I think so.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. joota
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    joota Mr. Anchor Retired Staff

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    It seems like people have been asking for this QoL change forever. Why do sairs get to have a buff icon to keep track of when the boat will go down but not buccs with energy charge?

    You can use an nx transformation to bypass the barrel dispel glitch, but this would be nice. I wonder if dark sight ever gets dispelled?
     
  6. FatSloth
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    FatSloth Windraider Retired Staff

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    I think the touch damage reflect is the big disappointment for me. The other changes would just be icing on the cake.
     
  7. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    PG doesn't trigger DR. Or at the very least I can walk through pink bean while it has DR on with PG on.

    With PG touch dmg is c. 15.5k. If it really did trigger with PG on then I'd have died countless times while walking through PB with power guard on given reflect is 15k (add 15.5k touch = 30.5k).

    And I am pretty sure achilles doesn't affect DR.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    2:08 AM
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    Buccaneer
    More on stun mastery, I wish stun mastery was a thing in bossing. Stunning is a core mechanic in grinding and it's sad to see that part of a bucc's toolbox become irrelevant at bosses. It would be neat if you could apply a stun marker (e.g. page's threaten, MM's blind) on a boss making it susceptible to crits without actually stunning them (i.e. skill/movement-locking). It would help with non-transformed dpm (but maybe make orb useless). Then again, idk if this is at all possible or warranted to implement.

    Second, I have a question about how stun mastery stacks with SE. Crit chance with a stunned mob is 60% and SE adds 15% to the chance. However, stun mastery adds +60% dmg when activated, SE adds +140% dmg, and when both stun mastery and SE activates we get +300% dmg. How does the calculation work for the latter to occur? Is it a flat 75% chance? Or does it calculate in steps 0.6*0.15 = 9%? I haven't grinded enough with a MM (bucc+mm 7F dream team?) to confirm.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. joota
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    joota Mr. Anchor Retired Staff

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    My understanding is that:

    1) Stun + No SE:
    60% chance of adding 60% to attacking skill

    2) No Stun + SE:
    15% chance of adding 140% to attacking skill

    3) Stun + SE:
    75% (60%+15%) chance of adding 300% (160%+140%) to attacking skill.

    KurayamiLoveKurayamiLove is asking for 1) Stun + No SE to change so it's 60% chance of adding 160%. Is that right?
     
  10. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/scheduled-maintenance-november-30-2020.35636/#post-239838

    Actually, we had heard about the issues with Energy Charge & Damage Reflect and applied a change already. It should behave like Power Guard and not trigger the 15k damage reflect. Unfortunately, we forgot to mention it in the maintenance notes, but it should have been applied yesterday!

    The answer to this is PROBABLY (don't quote me on this) due to how Neckson decided Energy Charge to be a passive skill. Passive skills don't have buff icons like active skills or items do (eg. Onyx Apples, Sharp Eyes, Battleship). Neckson made it be a pseudo-active skill by giving it its own custom status bar. So there's multiple layers as to why it hasn't been done (perhaps from a technical side too) & also why that comparison isn't apt.

    Remember~ I'm not a dev, so I can't tell you my interpretations are 100% correct, but hopefully it sheds some light~
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. OP
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    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    I'm not sure about that. I think they don't and even then Hero/Paladin has a choice to cancel the skill whenever they want unlike Buccaneer with charge. Good thing this was changed last manteniance.

    What I'm afraid is that if they remove the animation the Barrel tech won't be possible anymore. Why this tech is a thing is because the slow animation of top of the buff not appearing the second its casted allos us to cancel animations and the damage boost that we get from that is something we needed to buff ab it our shitty untransformed damage (and using this tech requires timing so for me is fair). Even if we could make it buff fast and still cancel skill I'm not sure how the balance team would see this since you can cancel skills even quicker, I'm up for more power since I think Bucc's Dmg should be closer to BM dmg in single target o.o .

    All I want is 160% on stuned mobs always, needing SE to make this skill good is kinda meh. The 60% boost is ok but while mobbing (the only place where you can stun) I rather not lose time stunning and just use Dragon Strike combos to kill quickly, the boost only comes handy on Snatch spam but even then the boost isn't that OP on Snatch by itself.
     
  12. OP
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    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    As Joota said chances stack so is 60+15% = 75% chance to activate a crit. The damage stacking is my issue Stun Mastery adds 60% to your % but if combined with SE is 160% for some reason so I just want +160% always cos 60% unless it is on a barrage multiplied hit (5th or last hit) doesn't add much and you still lose damage by stunning (Unless Snatch is used).

    Would be cool indeed to make Stun Mastery a pasive crit and use it on Bosses but I'm afraid that kinda breaks the class a bit. Look at these numbers on SE+Stun Mastery if crit:
    Barrage hit 1-4: 580%
    Barrage 5th hit: 1160%
    Barrage last hit: 2320%
    Snatch: 900%
    Dragon Strike: 1110%
    Demolition: 760%
    Energy Orb first mob: 1200%

    I bet this would push Buccaneer to be better at DPM than NL. With SE crit and cider I already hit decent numbers like 163k on last hit of barrage and a bit over 60k when Demolition crits. But yeah again would be nice cos on Chocolate I would easily do 117k crits on demo and easy 2 cap damage on the 2 last hits of Barrage (the normal hits would go for 80-86k or so perhaps).
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. OP
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    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    You can pull a sneaky and Barrel cancel run away when the CD of DR is out but that would lower your dmg since you don't Dragon Strike (DS aniamtion is so slow that PB can get close to you and you will just die). Also this made Buccaneers that are fully charged avoid using control skills like Snatch or Cokscrew Blow to control PB possition.
     
  14. Use1essC0W
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    Use1essC0W Slime

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    One suggestion: For Energy Charge, while maintaining the current Neckson passive skill mechanics (with the meter gauge status bar), can we do for example activating an undispellable Buff Icon when the passive skill machanics is ON, also with countdown behavior like blinking a few times when the charge duration is about to go off. It helps bucc to keep track of the charge time and plan for their next combo.
     
  15. OP
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    KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    I tried once to do a 50 second animation for the old charge for when it was possible to add edits but sadly the editor gave me errors adding frames to the animations but perhaps a path like that could be taking. Get the charge bar, the blinking animation and make a 60 second long animation with the bar depleting like I did, that or make it blink on a different way when is about to run out.
     

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