The reason why our ToS needs to change

The only people I’ve actively talked with in game were islanders, Buch, Hiyo and couple of people in Sodomites Alliance or DuckNation back in 2018.

i think i legit played a bunch of the game with just a controller, helps being silent and not giving a single crap about people

 

Except you quite literally did here:

You're attributing your own experience due to your personality while ignoring the possibility of differences in privilege. You're also denigrating others who have a different experiences as due to being an asshole. These are anecdotal opinions being expressed as factual points in your argument.

Let's say you're running 6 man horntail and your bishop dies. Let me propose a few possible reactions:

• Player A: "?"
• Player B: "what the fuck haha"
• Player C: "WHAT THE FUCK"

These are all just text-based inputs, and let's just assume all 3 responses are meant to be friendly/humorous. Player A's response is the one that's most aligned with my personality even though in my head, I could be thinking like Player C. But my social upbringing, education, and understanding of language and how it can affect others has taught me to tone things down in order to not hurt feelings.

However, someone with a different upbringing, around different cultural settings, through the added process of having to translate mentally, might not have the wherewithal to go through that type of thinking and immediately go for the Player C response because that is what they are familiar with in their social circles, which could cause hostility towards the bishop when it was not intended at all. This would then impact any future interactions between this player and the bishop. This can lead to vastly different experiences down the road.

I think it's ignorant to say that the slight nuances in language use are a non-issue because they absolutely are.

 

Learn it somewhere else. It is not MapleLegends' job to teach people how to treat others. That's something you should be learning in preschool.

 

I think alot of people here overestimate their importance- to put it bluntly. It doesn't matter how much of your life you've sinked into this server, you're just a player. This isn't your platform. You have to realize that by putting yourself on someone else's platform, it isn't going to be a democracy where everyone has equal say.

There have been big streamers who have been banned off twitch who cry about how unfair it was. Did they break the TOS? Did they not? The debate will never end, but regardless- the reality is that they put themselves in that position one way or another.

Let's say for example that you're constantly shit-talking people, it isn't overly malicious, but eventually it catches up to you and you offend someone. They gather the evidence and report you.

Now, the argument so far has been whether or not staff has overstepped their bounds policing TOS on non-ML platforms.

This brings up a broader argument that spans multiple platforms. For example: should someone lose their job for something insensitive that they posted on twitter? You could argue that it has no relation to how good that person is at their job, and private thoughts are just that. Or you could argue that this exposes their character and you wouldn't want to work alongside someone like this. At the end of the day, it is at the discretion of that specific company what to do.

Similarly, something offensive said outside of ML jurisdiction could be interpreted by staff as toxic and detrimental to their community. Well, in this scenario if they decide to ban you....it is their platform.

We as players are all at the mercy of their judgement. And that is easy for those hurt to paint staff as this Gestapo-like organization that only seeks to control and manipulate. Criticizing them as an entity is an easy boogeyman, but staff is made up of our peers, who are all the same- prone to faults.
But I also think onus should be placed on offending parties...the strike system is not perfect, but if you are repeatedly ringing up strikes, then you are not likely the victim here.

From what I've seen, Kimmy and staff are genuine in their approach to bettering this game, which is why I've stuck around on this server. And I've never had any sort of issue my entire time here since late 2020. But again, just my personal 2 cents here.

Anyways all this is just food for thought. I'm just here really for the discussion.

 

At this point this argument turns into something that's not contributing to this thread and I highly doubt that I personally can discuss anything with you anymore.

As a final word, the change is ToS appears to be a protective foundation to the community, formed with the experience staff had all over those years. Detailly thought and executed, I commend every staff member who worked on it. Personally I feel safer knowing that the community I'm spending time in is a place where ethical rules apply fairly.

 

Not sure why you are bringing up player to player language barriers when the previous reply was about staff to player language barriers. Staff to player language barrier is, again, not an issue due to several solutions that can be used. Like google translate, or having another staff member more proficient in said language to take over.

But it's still not an issue. Because guess what. If the Bishop his answer to a possible misunderstanding of something said to him is to give an aggresive toxic response or whatever response that could be hostile to the bishop. He is at fault. Maybe find other circles to be in lol.

Don't be a dick.

Oh wow here we are again that people just shouldn't be dicks. It really aint hard.


Small mistake in the reply where i said bishop hostile reaction to bishop but its ok am phone i cba to change now

also Dimez dont show my garden of notbeingadick didnt give permission very rude

 

Except it is when the ToS entirely revolves around player to player interaction. Staff is just the 3rd party arbitrator. Situations CAN devolve due to language barriers as I've exemplified in my previous post. Chalking that up as just being a dick is ignorant af and is showing your blindspots from your privilege.

Intentions do matter in social settings. Just because ToS chooses to ignore it doesn't mean that it is a realistic or holistically truthful interpretation of matters.

 

Where are you even going with this? Is ToS supposed to have a language misunderstanding clause LOL

 

what you say on twitter is not what you saying inside your own house. twitter is public. saying something around your friends is not committing a crime. for instance, it’s different from domestic violence. Is it a crime criticizing someone inside your home? Only if it’s recorded and brought to public. That’s all we are pointing how this is over regulation

also you overestimate the kind of persecution you believe that happens, because most bans happen upon really silly stuff

 

Why does the ToS exist? Is it to protect the community from malicious intent, or is it to keep people from being offended?
If it is the latter, from this point forward, I will take it upon myself to find situations where I can be offended and report others in this community for their wrongdoings.

This is why the new change in ToS is stupid.

 

Must be a language issue, but I can't find any part of the ToS that says the goal is to keep people from getting offended. If you are someone who gets offended easily, I guess you can go report all you want, doubt it is going to do anything.

 

You do realize that 3.3.3 issues are entirely up for interpretation of staff and are based on the offended party's feelings getting hurt, right?

 

Didn't you previously mention in this thread you prefer more subjectivity exercised by staff?

 

I would love some elaboration on this!

 

Yes, along with better communication between all parties (staff included) and the open space for reconciliation.
Maybe Staff should revisit this thread and integrate Jess's points into their process to better facilitate between players.

Staff are fallible as well, and they should be open to being challenged by their community, but the go-to response in the past has been to shut threads down entirely. I'm always thankful when Nise spends the time to drum up his responses, especially in these types of heated threads, and he's clarified on a lot of points I had previously made.

That being said, I don't know what the internal process is for a harassment claim. I haven't personally been involved in a conflict where staff had to intervene. But even as an outside purveyor, I can see the problems with a rigid set of rules that are only getting more and more rigid with each new iteration.

Again, I would like to set as a disclaimer, I personally do not think it's difficult to stay out of drama. But I also do not think it's fair to assume my experience as the norm nor do I expect that to be the case for all people. I am just pointing out that saying "just be like me" is pretty tone deaf.

Otherwise, we should all just be like Motto to avoid getting into any type of conflict. Sounds like a fun and perfect way to play this game, doesn't it? :^)

 

So you want things to be less black and white and give more subjectivity to staff, and yet you are concerned with the rules being up to staff interpretation. At this point do you even know what you want?

 

just clam up to our fault lines, talk to people who put a collateral with you.

 

Yes? And I want staff to be open for criticism when they make certain decisions. Staff are players too.
If things are going to be taken case-by-case, a rigid ToS only serves to fracture the community.
What I want is for this community to be more malleable so we can preserve what we have left. A brittle, fragmented community will disappear over time.

At the end of it, I question the decision making of these recent ToS adjustments that might stem from good intentions to protect the community and posit that it might be having adverse effects overall.