Revamp Enrage into Party IED

sounds nice!

 

While this thematically sounds nice I'd imagine it's overall unimpactful enough for people to still seriously consider taking a Hero over something like a Bucc, which also provides a small DPM increase as well as additional utility through Time Leap, in content like Toad or PB. It's a good starting place if the class is indeed intended to have a new direction but I think Heroes are in need of desperately more help than this to become meta relevant.

 

IED at HT and PB would make heroes overpowered. Current WDEF values for HT and PB are 1500. That translates to a reduction of 1500 range from any attackers. This reduction could be 20% to 5% to a NL on apple.

Note that pallies have a similar skill, Threaten, which reduces enemy WDEF by a flat value.

 

cant agree more. heroes are a sandwiched class between pallies and drks.

 

#giveHerosAPurpose

 

Hello hero main here
I'm looking for someone to finally explain to me why heros need any other changes.
Besides PB, hero is a very good class in almost all content. Now with the def buff added to NT bosses the class also have a party utility.
Heros that have good gear and utilize the panic changes can deal decent damage.
Besides pb, i honestly can only think heros "struggle" in nameless because ranged can die in 1shot. Still very doable pin that needs focus (and aggro bugs fixes).

If you ask me, the only change heros need is a change to the duration of orbs buff, and maybe shorten the cast time of armor crush. Orb buffs has 200 second duration (meanwhile theres a first job skill lasting 300 sec), its dpable and its the main source of dmg for the class
Armor crush takes a lot of time to cast, and while many bosses got deff buff these days which makes hero have a pt utility, its also backfires because the class loses alot of dpm casting armor crush.

Please don't overtune heros from the already good state its in right now cant keep judging classes over a single boss

 

I wonder if Enrage could be made into a unique defensive skill that protects your party members from getting dispelled. No other class has a support skill like that, but it would come clutch in some pretty niche situations. While guised as a defensive skill for mages and shads, it'd also be a DPM boost for your entire party since they wouldn't have to stop attacking to rebuff. It'd make for some interesting optimization plays in basically every fight that has frequent dispels (HT, Auf, PB).

I'm guessing coding this would be a nightmare, but it would be really cool and I'd love running content with a skilled Hero that uses Enrage well.

 

modern maple has evolved pally into defensive class while hero as offensive class for meelee. maybe the ^ could be more aligned to pallies.

 

Cool enough idea honestly, if it only lasted 20 seconds~ it would require a skilled and attentive hero to read animations and give the sweat's a chance to really shine as an important member within a party, since they would have to use the skill right as the animation hits in HT for example.

 

The name of enrage needs to be changed if you do this. Something like this makes more sense to be an archmage skill. Seal???

 

Nope. I think it being on Hero is perfectly fine. Name could be changed, but I don't see a need for it - just need to alter the description to make it make sense. Maybe Rally or something so that it showcases the party-oriented aspect of the skill.

Being able to dodge dispels well goes directly to the benefit of the Hero class because they're riddled with rebuffing woes. Combo, booster, stance, power guard, rage, MW.

 

Before we further change a class's skill, I think it's well deserved to re-visit hero's orbs as mentioned above, with the addition of coma and panic. I recall a similar post on a hero's thread somewhere as well.

Here are some considerations:
- Panic consumes 5 > 3 orbs.
- Panic damage 350% > 355% or so.
- Coma now stuns boss summoned super mob (dark wyvern, mini beans).
- and maybe Recharge 2 combo counter success rate 75% > 85%

More fine tuning might be necessary but the rough idea is to minimize orb charging dpm downtime and better reward when orbs are consumed.

 

Flat damage reduction from defense applies after the percent damage reduction from pb, meaning defense on pb is a comparable % reduction to bosses with 3.4k wdef rather than 1.7k.

but i agree, and let's make it 100% uptime as well. #makeherogreat

 

and how about if the combo wasn't removed on dispel?

 

In all seriousness, I think the impact of weapon defense is a bit underappreciated by the general community--for example the formula commonly used for dpm efficiency (just take ratio of dpm to dummy dpm) is still biased toward players with stronger gear. If rage stacked with attack pots, do you think that might make them meta-relevant? I think the upper limits of this suggestion (100% uptime, 100% IED, ignoring bits about how you make this engaging rather than another mule you have to make) are closer to that than something like threaten. It's a neat idea.

 

while i do think this might be another alternative, whether certain skills should be able to dodge dispel is up for debate while I feel this change being not as meaningful in non-dp scenarios.

 

Hm, I suppose you’re right in that it would be impactful, but it wouldn’t fix the biggest issue Heroes have right now. This would give an incentive to bring Hero to content, but little additional incentive to actually play the Hero itself. Heroes and Dark Knights would end up in the same position where they are desired but nobody actually wants to play them, I think, assuming the change was large enough in magnitude that Heroes actually become competitive with other classes.