Shadower changes you’d want

Thuglifer · Apr 11, 2022

So this has been in the back of my mind for quite some time and had some mini discussions with fellow folks. Was thinking if we can change up shad a little, maybe a little more exciting by being able to use only BSTEP (does not remove Dark Sight upon usage) and ASSASINATE while in Dark Sight. Meanwhile, the Assassinate would be charging 1x during the first two combo (i.e. DS + BSTEP) and by the time Assassinate were to be casted, it'd have a charge of 1x instead of 0.

Edit:
1. As for DS + Bstep concern during grinds uses close to 0 HP pot. First we'd have to find out the pot costs on avg for shads in 7F, and maybe then we could see how much of a big impact the DS changes would have for the grinding aspect, if it's too over powered or not. Do note that Mobs do have magic skills that can inflict dmg while in DS but with the bstep stuns, maybe a lower stun rate could balance out and allow for more magic dmg instead of physical.

Cast delays:
Dark Sight: ?
Savage Blow: ?
Meso Explosion: ?
Bstep:690ms
Assassinate: ?

we would need to lower Nate’s charge frequency from every 1s to fit the duration it takes to cast DS and end BSTEP, which would be estimated at < 1s. Do note that you can’t pot while in DS, but one of the reasons why I feel this wouldn’t cause more harm (esp during 1/1 and magic combo scenarios for unwashed shads) than good for shads in bossing scenarios is cause of the iframe bstep has.

Combo 1: Single and Multiple Target
- DS > Bstep > Nate (w 0.5s ish per charge)

Combo 2: Single and Multiple Target
- DS > Bstep (spam Bstep till max charge) > Nate

Now, some optional stuff we could do as well. If we also allow Savage blow (increasing 80% > 100%?) to be used while in Dark Sight. I’m kinda skeptical about SB buffs and how much it’d affect early chief bandits who chose the grinding route than meso bombing but I guess it’d be kinda fine due to the short-ranged nature of the skill. We could get an additional potentially useful combo:

Combo 3: Single Target
- DS> Savage Blow (spam SB till max charge) > Nate

Combo 4: Single and Multiple Target
- DS> Bstep > Savage Blow (spam Bstep/SB till max charge) > Nate

- Allow Bstep and/or Savage Blow to be used while in Dark Sight but does not remove Dark Sight upon usage.
- Reduce per charge basis from 1s to fit duration it takes to Dark Sight and end Bstep (est < 1s).

Alternatives:

Allow SE to apply on Assassinate’s First 4 lines. (impossible to implement?)
- would estimate a likely +3% overall dpm boost (dummy target – only DS+Nate) I could be wrong.
- I really like this, could even be a 1st step in appropriate changes.

Increase Assassinate success rate 90% > 100%.

Increase Assassinate Crit dmg 250% > 350%.

Increase Assassinate’s Attack from 625% > 680%.

Allow Assassinate speed to be based on overall speed (weapon and booster/SI)

Fully charged Assassinate would give Damage +10% buff for 60s when used.
- Taking some inspiration from Heartstopper/ Unripe Apple/ Combo attack’s orbs dmg bonus, tho in most scenarios, it’s most likely orbs are charged much faster than the current charge time of 12s for assassinate. Was thinking of an initial 20s buff but seemed way too short to to be worth it for a minor dpm boost. Would be cool if some sort of combo of this (6th) with the 7th or 8th line is plausible.

Remove Dark sight requirement to perform Assassinate and every 8s (could be lower) from last use of Assassinate to be max charged.
- Opening possible pathways of using various skills inbetween while waiting for the max charge timer rather than waiting for 12s in DS.

Remove Dark Sight requirement to perform Assassinate and retain mechanics for charging Assassinate in Dark Sight (Duo-function skill).
- would estimate a likely +10% overall dpm boost (no real way to test this other than using DS v Nate delay, the time it takes to DS+Nate vs Nate and pings).

Reducing Assassinate’s charge time of 12s > 4s.
- Somehow a few of us do not get full charge on 8s after DS, could possibly be because of the 1st second of being in DS isn’t counted right away upon casting and instead it’s more like 12-13s, considering lags and all.
- Falling off cliffs/sed would allow for max charge on ds walk back to spot.

Removing Assassinate's Dash animation.
- could even remove the MP req for the Dash portion.

Increasing Assaulter Dmg 450% > 600%.
- helps in HT wings/ Zak arms while repositioning

Increasing Shield Mastery's defense 100% > 200%.

Adding a base of 500 P.Def to Shield Mastery.

Increase Meso Guard duration from 120 seconds -> 180 seconds

ME to have a base Crit %.

Increase ME aoe range by 2 pixels on left and right, or 2x.

Apply SE on ME, with boosted dmg% bonus.

ME damage applies even on Weapon or Magic Cancel.

Bonus Damage on ME during Weapon or Magic Cancel.

ME damage applies even on Damage Reflect and/or No damage taken by caster of ME during Damage Reflect.

Bonus Damage on ME during Damage Reflect.

Allow Potting while in DS (shadowers only)

Allow Assassinate to be mid-air castable.

Toggle-able Assassinate for Dash (on/off)

Increasing Assaulter Vertical range by 1.5x of existing pixel.

Max Charge removes meso costs on Meso Guard for 2mins.

Max Charge applies a +1,000 W.Def and +2,000 M.Def for 120s. (note, it will remove buffs such as HT/PB)

Max Charge removes Damage Reflect reflect to player and/or allows any subsequent skills for the next 60s to cause damage. (yes, this might cause some confusion to non-shads when DR appears especially in PB, kinda exciting ngl :/)

Max Charge adds 1 additional damage line that deals 75% of the first line.

Max Charge applies a 50% Critical rate chance and/or 25% Damage on Assasinate for 60s. (Shad ver of SE)

Increasing BOT horizontal range by 1 pixel.
- With existing hitbox range, It isn't very intuitive for shadowers to use said skills for majority of bosses. On occasions, BOT has a hit/proc chance with a rate of 50% or so on RH/wings/arms.

Increasing Assaulter Horizontal range by 1.5x of existing pixel.
- Perhaps to the point where jumping off top left/right platforms in HT allows assaulter to reach Mid head and land shadowers onto the opposite top platform.
- Would be nice to see more mobility in especially HT when maneuvering between knockdowns, dp, rebuffs.

Assassinate:
- Lowering Directional Nate (last hit) Delay by half
Usually, this would lower one's dpm to an efficiency of 88-90% that of pure nate's spam without directional inputs. Also with the added nuances of turning around and facing the target again, where i feel with the lower delay could compensate better for the added effort.

Also, directional keys only activates directional nate if pressed 1 time within 0.5-1s roughly (right before the 4th line appears) or holding down on the arrow key. Where I feel utilizing JUMP as a 'cancel like function' allows for some quick correction of character placement in certain maps and/or avoiding landing on that body touch/musical note.

SmokeScreen to have blinking indicative visual of ending

*suggested numerical values are rough estimates
Nise said: ↑
「 Shadower 」

Assassinate no longer requires Dark Sight to be cast

Assassinate now allows charging up to 12 seconds at every skill level

Assassinate after being cast while fully charged provides a new self-buff called "Ignore Enemy Defense" (IED), which partially ignores enemy's defense for 30 seconds

The amount of defense ignored scales off skill level: starting from ignoring 22% defense at level 1 and scaling to ignoring 80% defense max level

See spoiler for more details
Code:
Weapon Defense Formula - credit to AGF/Stereo:
MAX damage = (MAX before defense) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*.5
MIN damage = (MIN before defense) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*.6
where D is (monster level - player level) if (monster level) > (player level), and 0 otherwise.
Every monster has a weapon defense value that acts to reduce the damage taken by the character. The easiest way of interpreting monster weapon weapon defense is reducing the character's damage range by roughly half of the weapon defense value. By reducing 80% of a monster's weapon defense, a Shadower can expect to have varying increases in damage depending on the monster - as one can see with the above graph.

Another important thing to note about IED is how it affects players with lower damage ranges greater than those with higher damage ranges. This can be observed in the chart, where a lower level Shadower sees a higher percentage increase in damage. Do note that a higher level Shadower still sees a significant increase in damage, just that a lower level Shadower sees a relatively higher increase.

Note: This IED self-buff only affects base WDEF for monsters. In the case of a monster casting the WDEF Up buff, it will not interact in the same way.
Having Dark Sight as a requirement to cast Assassinate has made Shadowers highly ping reliant, which is unfair to players that live far away from the server. For added context, the number of Assassinate per minute varies from 35 to 41 depending on the players' ping. Players living far away from the server with high ping can finally enjoy the same DPM as low ping players with this change. Additionally, all Shadowers should see an increase in overall single target damage as they no longer need to wait out the cast time for dark sight in between each of their Assassinates.

While we removed the Dark Sight requirement for ping reasons, we still felt casting dark sight before Assassinate should yield some sort of added advantage. Hence, we've decided to give Shadowers a special buff whenever Assassinate is fully charged in Dark Sight in the form of an "Ignore Enemy Defense" buff. This not only adds a new layer of complexity to the Shadower playstyle, but also provides them a new niche in certain situations against high defense targets with their self-utility.
Click to expand...
Nise said: ↑

「 Shadower 」

Assassinate dash now only procs if the player is holding a directional key (suggested here, here)

Band of Thieves hitbox increased at lower levels, and hitbox scaling also improved (max level hitbox unchanged)

As noted in the suggestion post, the last hit from Assassinate, which is the dash, tends to occur unfavorably at times. While it is possible to "cancel" the dash, it is unreliable due to client interactions, which results in the occasional death that is out of the player's control. This change will reverse the interaction whereby the dash only procs when a directional key is held, rather than defaulting to a dash always. This change gives more control to players and should hopefully result in less unnecessary deaths.
Click to expand...
Please do leave your thoughts along with any other creative ideas you have here! And if you liked any part, maybe we could expand on some of it into further depth!

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