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Overall class ranking throughout

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by xiaoyaoz, Nov 20, 2021.

  1. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    The main metric for categorising the classes are based on "progress".
    So, what is progress?
    Mainly, there are 2 type of progress but at a later part of the game, only the second part of progress remains:
    1) Levels (to access content)
    2) Damage (on your own class)

    Also note that the ability of one class to earn meso hugely affects how fast one character can progress in the game, which can be through buying leech or buying stronger gears.

    A secondary metric that I would also like to use is content diversity, which in a sense, helps the player to be rather motivated to play the game longer and thus help with a faster progress. This will be somewhat more influential as the game progress into the late game with more bossing content being accessible. In terms of content, do mind that it also takes into account how wanted a class will be in such content.

    How is this post useful?
    Players can know what class is more rewarding based on how far they want to progress the game.
    Also, hopefully a more holistic idea of how one class progress throughout the game instead of just which class is the best endgame wise.

    What I want to gain from this post?
    To learn about the difference in understanding of how the different classes perform at different stage of the game from other people perspective. So, comment down below if you think some classes should rank differently and why.

    So, here is my personal ranking:
    upload_2021-11-20_4-21-1.png

    upload_2021-11-25_15-15-51.png
    (Updated on 25th Nov 2021)
    If anyone has any question for why I rank those classes in those positions, comment down below and I'll try to explain my view on the matter.
     
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  2. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    Just wondering, why would you rank the 3 mages the first top 3 on BF & Rav?
    Wouldn't paladin be better? With max ACB and Blast, they will have enough damage to knockback those bosses and have cleaves to clear the little summons from Rav.
     
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  3. Gurk
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    Gurk Wolfspider

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    What makes shad above hero and DK from 120 to 150?
     
  4. TWW
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    TWW Pink Teddy

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    That steep hero decline on the tier list after 170...
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Headless Horseman Retired Staff

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    Maybe the level categories could use different names, it's a bit confusing.

    I'd rank warriors much lower 120-150, with DK on top as they have the least to build before gaining stance. Heros and Paladins generally wait until like 140 to even begin, and without it they're basically trash everywhere. 150-170 is really the only time warriors have a justifiable use but other than that they're trash. Paladin just needs to get minimum 50k Blast lines for Nameless pin, and DKs just need to reach 150 so they can be an HB mule for PB. Hero I don't even think I can justify making for any reason. I would say that White Knight is a stronger 3rd job, they get a 1.75x multiplier compared to Crusader's 1.6, along with ele weaknesses to boost that further. I'd say WK is better than Marauder but Crusader is below Marauder.

    Early Corsair is also probably a sleeper class. They have enough skills and enough early DPS to smash most classes in all content with only a few SP investments, from farming cards to bossing to general training. But 1-120 though they are by far the worst class to play, they are Hermits but worse in every single way, with laughable single target damage and even more laughable mobbing.
     
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  6. xadra
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    xadra Capt. Latanica

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    Agreed on WK being above crusader in 3rd job. Ele advantage gives you really good places to grind without ever having to compete with others for a map.
     
  7. ctjh1996
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    ctjh1996 Slime

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    I have a small issue with the ranking of MM/BM with any time u rank MM over BM for anything other than HT and PB.

    first of all, I think as other threads (especially the worst class ranking one) have mentioned - MM is far superior in PB because of snipe being as it is on body as well as the cleaving ability of MM for multiple targets in HT. while there is certain arguments for this to made for JC (cos there are multi targets of mini Jiaos but this can be easily circumvented by a consistent cleaver pushing the minis out of range)

    For those where BM is a clear cut advantage: I think CWK is plain and clear, all MMs will recognise how painful is it to pin pirate even with SI. As for Scar (minus targa), it is also arguable that a hamstring scar is also ideal with DPM maximisation and just comfort especially when there are squishy ranges. Nameless is also where BM shines with the hamstring cos he moves rly quickly.

    as for the others not mentioned (eg. Targa, other NT bosses, toad)) I think we are more focused on DPM comparisons which has formed the bulk of the analysis in the other thread, BM and MM is actly comparable for a single target and under perfect conditions (SI included). Not being SI dependent just takes the edge for me tho :)

    not to discourage anyone from choosing one or the other, both are fine and well playable, just that MM rly shines far and above BM in PB. Not to mention the ridiculous BFA 30 prices and clean DSBs + other end game bows being slightly more expensive than xbows, I would rly recommend doing a MM for now if u have an SI mule and u do want to shine in the late game PB stages. But another point to note is that if u are funded, perfect bows are more in abundance than xbows, but that is way above my pleb pay grade so pls pardon me in this aspect

    hope it still helps anyone still deciding between the two, don’t wanna sound like a broken recorder

    otherwise, through my limited single attacker play, I do agree with much of the rankings of OP but I’m terribly inexperienced in other aspects of DPM maximisation :)

    sry edited TLDR: might not fit nicely into ur categories but in a perfect world with SI readily available
    - MM > BM in HT and PB
    - BM > MM in CWK, Scar, Nameless
    - BM = MM in other NT bosses/JC/Toad/ various other bosses
    ** added some random considerations just for anyone else reading the thread
     
  8. OP
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    xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    The ability for them to sell leech while levelling makes them very potent. At level 1 genesis, a bishop can do up to windraider and higher level of genesis will allow them to access 2-hit skeles. For the other 2 mages, it's a similar fashion with quicker access to ulu and 3 hit 1-2.
    Paladin is ranked so here is because of their access to 5-6 duo with a bishop through usage of heaven hammer which allows them to obtain pretty good eph, but if they go through the blast route, their bossing ability at this stage will still be better than the other classes I think.

    I'm not exactly sure here, but my idea behind this is shad would have 7f better than the others since bstep is easier and doesn't depend on SI, shad also doesn't need to worry about accuracy issue in 7f.
    Shad takes only 10 levels to max b.step to reach their full potential + 10more levels to max shifter for quality of life.
    Hero need 10 levels for brandish and 10 levels on combo before reaching full potential + 10more levels in stance for QoL.
    Drk is faster with 10 levels on zerk and 4 levels on beholder mastery + 10more levels on stance.

    Shad is also easier at card hunting at those levels I think.

    Basically since almost every other class can start 6man HT and 7f around those levels to compete in eph, which only makes hero good at cwk.

    Any suggestion what to name those levels?

    How much lower for level120-150? The part here is mainly guided from 7f, but I'm not sure how much eph they can get with reasonable assumptions.

    3rd job warrior I probably have one of the least clue in but you're probably right between crusader and white knight. Not sure how good the damage comparison between Marauder and Warrior though, my main idea for Marauder being better here is due to energy drain + mp recovery just gives them very little need for pots in grinding efforts, as well as access to energy blast which is probably give a stronger grind than slash blast.

    It's true about corsair, and I thought of that as well. I don't have the data but I feel like 7f just crushes all of those?
    I could probably move corsair above the bowman/marksman for lvl120-lvl140 for their faster skill mastery, but i'm not sure how well they grind at those stage in comparison since archers already have aoe skills from 3rd job.

    Good stuff, what do you recommend WK to grind at in 3rd job?

    I'm confused, so, you're saying BM is better than MM at everything except HT and PB?

    MM is better than BM at PB, represented from lvl180+
    it's not for HT in lvl160 because it is dependant on SI and you are still maxing some of your skills if you're considering piercing arrow HT.
    Level 160+ is when BM reaches its full potential from maxing all of the useful skills. At lvl150-lvl160, BMs are still maxing skill which I think snipe would give MM the advantage in damage to progress faster.
    Also, MM has cheaper equips which will make them have higher damage while BM only started to earn meso through CWK at that stage.
    For those equivalent bosses you mentioned, BM is better for not requiring SI and thus can always bring a NL partner instead of a bucc which helps progressing the content faster.
     
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  9. xadra
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    xadra Capt. Latanica

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    WK are extra extra efficient at: Vikerolas, Dual Ghost Pirates, Grim Phantom Watch, Blue Wyverns - these carry to level 110 at which point every job that isn't F/P struggles anyway.
     
  10. Gurk
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    Gurk Wolfspider

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    I guess that's reasonable, although for the 140-150 ranking to make sense bossing seems to be entirely discounted as shads can't really do any bossing at all until 150+, unless they max nate before shifter (not that 14x shads get taken to zak anyways).

    I've laid this out already in other threads, but for the record MM cleaving in HT isn't really an advantage over BM as much as it is a necessity to mitigate damage loss while right head is cancelled. If it were possible for MMs to continue focusing on mid head (like when there's smoke), they would opt for it rather than cleaving. MM cleaving could only be possibly construed as an advantage over BMs if the resulting DPM produced with the help of some cleaving was significantly higher than the single target DPM of BMs, which does not seem to be the case according to the HT DPM thread, even before conceding that MM DPM is inflated by cleave damage to wings, some of which is not significant.

    I think MM single target DPM could very well be higher than BMs in HT if they could stay on left side the entire time, but that would require a very specific composition: a 6-man with a bucc, BM and MM. However, such a composition would technically be less optimal than one which just drops the MM and adds more NLs, Sairs or Pallies (or of course also dropping the bucc altogether to add another NL) so the MM is somewhat moot there.

    Furthermore, while I would freely concede that MM is the better archer in PB, I would not go so far as to say that they are "far superior" (as evidenced by skar's 4.5m body dpm), only that they are harder to play optimally. While snipe gives MM the advantage, it requires that they attack from the right side, which means they get hit very often unlike on the left side. Moreover, body only makes up the latter half of the fight, the former half of which BM performs better in than MMs.

    I'd also add that BM is better than MM in dunas (hamstring) and nib (because they can attack from bottom right), not that those bosses are run much.
     
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  11. OP
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    xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Tbh, the whole lvl120-150 is highly weighted from grinding instead of bossing since grinding would give much better eph and meso if I'm not wrong.
    But I'll be glad if someone can give me the actual number so I can calibrate better.
    Now I'm just making some of the ranking based on impression.
     

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