Bishop Syndrome

From all the complaining I can see it going down 3 ways:

1) HS be nerfed
2) Genesis be nerfed
3) No EXP will be gained for AFK leeching. But this will apply to all parties

 

Yes... relive those fond memories of clinging to a rope while genesis obliterates everything in sight.
but really, this is just the typical last-ditch response by people to resist change here, even in defense of a clearly problematic status quo. hell, for nostalgia's sake, why not bring back paying for NX with real money?

I definitely agree with nerfing HS's exp, at least on afk or semi-afk party members. The main problem with bishops is how much more exp someone can get just by leeching on a rope compared to actually training.

 

I only told you not to quote my posts without first reading and understanding my beliefs on the subject. In the reply asking that of you I even provided you with the previous excerpt showing that my beliefs did not match up with what you were projecting them to be. Instead of apologizing for your misunderstanding, you went on to be the first attacker (other than my reading comprehension and rustling jimmies comment, which weren't attacks at all but could have been perceived as such) by saying "You may like to take that attitude down a notch and perhaps you could actually engage in a pleasant discussion instead of coming across as a keyboard warrior who tries to impress with their big words on an Internet forum."

I'm not looking to agitate anyone here, i'm looking for my words not to be misconstrued by people who don't read or read correctly. I'm also looking for people to be able to admit when they've made the slightest misinterpretation mistake rather than arguing the point. Stop and think, whose being the immature one here?

So do you think there was a reason the owners of maple story put that rule in place, or, being solely a player, do you not think about those sort of things???

hint: it broke their game, just like it is breaking ours

 

Really guys, the problem isn't bishops so much as it is leeching. That said I think I can come up with some concrete suggestions. In addition to disabling exp after a player has been idle for a certain period of time...

a) Reduce Holy symbol EXP at 2 party members to +20%. Just make it so by yourself = +10%, and each party member adds +10% more exp up to a cap of +50%. Most leechers are in parties of two, so this should reduce that.

b) players that kill the mob get even more of the exp. All we really need to do I think is make it so that in addition to the 20% kill bonus, at least half of the exp directly goes to the killer then the other half is split up to party members. So for example:

originally players of equal level got something like...
killer: 20% kill bonus + 50% split exp = 70% of mob exp
leecher: 50% leeched exp.

Now if the other party members are only split half the mob exp...
killer: 50% guaranteed exp + 20% bonus exp + 25% split exp = 95% exp
leecher: 25% leeched exp


Consider a lv 130 char leeching a lv 70 at WS
killer: 20% kill bonus + 65% split exp = 85% of mob exp
leecher: 35% exp.

With this new change:

killer: 50% guaranteed + 20% kill bonus + 32.5% split exp = 102.5% exp
leecher: 17.5% exp.

Cap killer's exp at 100% gain (before HS).

Additionally, we could do something like if you are more than 20 levels below the killer, you gain an additional -1% penalty to your exp modifier for every level beyond 20. In the very last example above, that would make the leecher get 0 exp!

 

Woah...woah......woah...

Not cool man. Not cool

 

I semi-agree. I believe that leeching should remain an option for bishops to gain extra mesos as it offsets their inability to gain high level bossing item splits. They need a way to make da monies, too.

However, 7-10/hr vs 50-60/hr is simply to much of an experience gap. If leeching effectiveness goes down to about to about 35-45%/hr at that level (around 114-119) while a couple new maps are opened to raise training effectiveness to about 15-25%/hr, we'd have some pretty SWEET balance.

 

I'd rather see AFK leeching gone than HS get nerfed.

 

While this is true to some extent, mages are essentially useless when it comes to bosses (stronger word than is actually true but still fairly close to the truth). Their strength lies in the fact that they are good at mobbing and lvling fast after they get their big aoe spells, and bishop being notorious for having hs as a support class is something that I am sure most people would not want nerfed.
Not every class can be strong at everything, if anything what we should be doing is looking at the classes which excel at nothing (I.E paladins) and try to bring them up to an acceptable level rather than nerfing the only thing that mages have going for them to be useful in the game.

 

wtf is this thread still going on? Just make a bishop if you are so upset about leeching plebians

 

First of all, there is too much name-calling in this thread. If you disagree with someone, explain yourself nicely. There is no need to add derogatory terms to put your opponent down, since this only shows that you are not confident enough in putting forth a sound argument and have nothing else to convince people with apart from threats and emotion. Sarcasm and other ways of making people feel bad are unappreciated as well. If you have a point to make, be straightforward and civil about it. Even if you are right, you are less likely to convert others to your beliefs if you're acting like a dick.

Be an intelligent debater, not an emotional one. Use reasoning, be nice, be patient. Doing the opposite often discredits your viewpoints more than it deserves.



Now on to the topic. My benchmark for an un-balanced class is when having that class becomes a need or grants an advantage large enough for it to standout among other classes as a "highly encouraged to play" class. Bishops right now have the huge advantage in farming cash and exp for party members and yourself (if you dual log). The difference in amount of cash and exp you can net by being a Bishop compared to other classes is so great that they stand out as the class to pick if you want to get rich or power level others. Comments like "You should make a Bishop regardless of what classes you already have, because they are good at xxx" and threads like these suggest that Bishops may be too beneficial.

The main reasons for either of this, as already mentioned by others, is the 50% extra XP gain from HS, Geneisis, and the leeching system, and I would support a nerf to one of this three factors.



HS is a really powerful buff, with HS and one other party member, each player gets more exp from one kill of his own (after party split) than if he trained solo. This means that:

1. Partying with a Priest accelerates training by a lot.
2. Priest are encouraged to party up with someone, and regardless if that someone helps clear mobs or goes AFK, the Priest will still net more exp than when solo. It's a win-win situation.

Number 2 is what makes leeching convenient. Reducing the HS exp gain to 20% maxed would help to solve this.



Genesis is the strongest skill in the game considering the uses it has. Before 4th job, Priests weren't exactly "OP" in the aforementioned sense, because their main attacking skills were Shining Ray or Heal, both of which does not have impressive range or damage compared to Genesis. In exchange for being granted a very potent skill, an extremely high mana cost was tagged to it to ensure it stays balanced and that the caster suffers for using great power. However, mesos in private servers are more inflated than they were in GMS v62, and it will continue to inflate while pot prices remain the same, making pots more affordable. Not to mention we have purchasable percentage based pots like Mana Bulls or Ginger Ales which increases the cost effectiveness of casting Genesis by reducing the cost of its only draw back. Soon, the disadvantage of using Genesis will shift from its high mana-cost, to the fact that you have to train a Bishop to get it, which is arguably not the best drawback you want to balance that skill, since training a Bishop isn't the hardest thing to do (relative to other classes).

Long story short, GMS also experienced inflation and ultimately felt that Genesis was too OP to be kept in the same state as it was when introduced, so they added a 30 second cooldown (and maybe other nerfs that I don't recall right now). Doing the same here would skirt the issues listed above.



Finally, the party exp system is a third option that can be tweaked to combat leeching in particular. I have no idea how it could be changed, which makes it the trickiest option to pick, but the main goal is to disallow AFK leeching at least.



Conclusion: Nerfing HS would discourage leeching, but at the same time allow Bishops to keep their farming and levelling capabilities with untouched Genesis. Nerfing Genesis would do both, since leeching is much more effective with Genesis than with SR/Heal. The third option would probably nerf Bishops the least per se, leaving them untouched when training solo, and in a party they would still get the most EXP since they kill the most with Gene and HS is untouched, but leechers are totally killed off.

Which option to take depends on the views towards what Bishops should be. They are a support class, and their Heal/HS/Dispel/Bless is unique and good enough to warrant demand for them in parties, so is extra farming and levelling capacity with Genesis needed to encourage (or overencourage) players to pick this class? Should they be relegated to a more supportive role by nerfing their damage output? These are some questions to ponder and help make the decision, if you are looking at the possibility of a nerf to either of their skills.

 

seriously nerf the skillset of a class? okay lets start from bishops move to nerf archmages, then proceed to nerf any attacker and then any other class left. Lets all be pages!!

tf

 

ayy lmao

 

my thread poppin'

Gen cool down after i leech to 120

JK I train more than i leech .. please dont nerf HS that would be totally irrelevant of what this thread was intended .. If anything 10 second GEN cooldown which i dont know if that is possible in this server/version .. gen aswell as blizzard and meteor cooldown ..

Yall can call people who think like me "jealous" that you guys can get free leech whenever you want .. But in reality if the shoe was on the other foot .. lmao .. And the people who do get leech defending it so blatantly .. and not even just defending it but acting like they're better than everyone else .. "I get 60% an hour riding a rope so fuck you" type mentality instead of "Maybe you can get some leech someday and we can all be high level"

I'm all about peace guys

edit--

This thread was made to get people talking on this "issue" and what sense of community we really do have .. Getting peoples opinion on this matter, and hearing what people have to say .. their will obviously be disagreements and different voices/opinions .

 

OMG u guys r so right!!! bishops are so op omg yeah i totally agree HS and gene should be nerfed like omg. but u know what we shouldnt stop there, just look at how many other classes in maple story are OP also like night lords and bowmasters and corsairs and dark knights and heroes. In order to make it fair i suggest the idea that skills such as Sharp Eyes, Hurricane, Triple Throw, Battleship, Hyper Body and Brandish are nerfed in order to make the game fair and not unbalanced cause those classes, like bishops, are way too OP! #MapleStoryClasses OP #NeedChangeCuzPeopleComplain #Kony2012 #NerfEverything

 

I agree. It wouldn't be fair to nerf bishops skills just because they are to good at leeching other players..

Just..

1. Nerf exp received from leeching at skeles and possibly WS
2. Outlaw multi clienting (I thought this was already outlawed or I would have been complaining about it since day 1)
3. Open up a couple new training areas for 105-120 to further close the gap between leeching and training

Leeching should be for those who want to pay their in game currency so that they can be lazy. It should be a bit faster than regular training, yes, but not so much faster that it demotivates regular training. Level 100-120 priests also have HS and need parties!

 

Take this thread with a grain of salt please I have a feeling MapleLegends will lose a lot of player base if HS or bishops get nerfed due to a silly post. It wouldn't be GMS like If these things got nerfed, also ToT isn't even out yet which will even the playing grounds. Release all the content before deciding whether to nerf huge things like this.

 

This isn't a matter of "Well since we're nerfing A, we might as well nerf B-Z!"

Fact is bishops are completely above the rest. Who's the best class at making money? Bishops, ever since cleric & up.

Who's the most desired class to party? priests for HS, and at least 1 priest in a boss run to heal and also give HS.

What's the most played class? cleric and upward

What class leeches everyone else, including bishops-to-be? Bishops.


However, I think all that's reasonably being discussed is a change to the way party exp share works and tweaking HS, if only to deter leeching, and people are still going nuts.

 

There is no reason to change anything to HS, this server is based on GMS V62 let's keep it that way. I'm sure they nerfed HS and all that jazz in one of the later patches and I'm sure there is a private server with that version you could play. Let's not ruin the V62 experience and as much as anyone deny's it Bishop's being able to have such utility was part of that experience.

 

Off topic -

If I'm 6x and want to buy leech, where should it be at, and what should I expect for leeching for an hour or two(level wise)

 

It's not utility. Skills like haste, seal, bless, slow, magic crasher are utility. Heal is an offensive AoE vs undead that heals you and the entire party for dirt cheap. Combined with mp eater it's absolutely free. Once cleric gets 3rd job, HS is no longer utility but viewed as a necessity. And by 4th job, genesis is not a utility, but an ultimate, mapwide skill.