Chaos/White Scrolls

He never saved these chaos with the intention of selling them in the end tho. He only had one thing in mind and that was to finish his spear, which he did and thats why he has extra. He plans on using them too for his bwg so i wouldn't any of his savings was for nothing.

 

If finishing upgrade gear means "nothing to do anymore", than you're living so sad maple life...... this game isn't ScrollLegends.

and one more. nearly most of ppl who says "WS/chaos is op nerf plz" are who haven't got that jackpot. I know this is risky for going too furthermore, but i'd say it's related with their salt. like, "holy crap i played 2 yrs and haven't got any single, but that guy just signed up ytd and got ws! wtf! this is not fair!" , no, it's fair. just RNGesus thing.

it just sounds like
A : OMG ws/chaos rate is too op and ez, LF>nerf
B : so you got it?
A : NO
B : but you said it's ez
A : cos that C guys got it while i don't
C : ????

market price will tell us answer for this question. Adam smith, invisible hand. ;p

ps. i haven't got any single ws also, while training 3 19x charas. but I don't think it's unfair. just i was so sucks for lucky side on ws. that's all.

 

I i got chaos and pgc but i thnik the rates should be nerfed becuz it ruins the nostalgia

 

I think most veteran players find that the gach revamp is much better, then having end game gear, determined by 60s scrolls. I do not want to go back to that route, and people who say that ruins that "nostalgia", i'm sorry, but i don't care if it's nostalgic or not. If this server was just a pure "nostalgic" v62 server, then we wouldn't have so many things that people do now, again i think it's fine, though nerfing it a bit i would agree on, though that might not matter much since it's rng and all.

 

Having played since July 2015, trust me when I say a big increase of WS/CS was needed. It was impossible to make perfect gear 2 months ago, unless you're insane like Jess and somehow manage to pass 7x 30.
There would literally be a white scroll in FM once every month, the capes on which a chaos passed and did +att were single digit. Even after the server had been running for 1.5 years.
I personally feel like it might look like there's a ton of scrolls but in reality, you're gonna need an average of 40 (if you hit 3x 30 on a perfect weapon, which is really really rare already) white scrolls to perfect 1 weapon.
Is it really that big of a deal that there's 3/4 a day now then? Im not sure.

 

Firstly; I really don't understand the point of making another thread of the exact same topic where this one is already going on .. (you can find the 2nd thread here)

And second; as said this is only a temporary decrease in prices since as of right now the supply is greater than demand. Players are mostly at levels before 4th job or before the point where it's considered end game. So as many aren't really in need of WS or CS, we can see the prices are decreasing and it might feel like too much of them are coming out of gachapon. But in a few months time where all of these 200 players have reached 4th job and beyond to end game the demand will surpass the supply by quite a lot.

• WS are not only used to perfect weapons but also at a later game 60% + WS are very common to use especially on equips (such as lets say you pass a good deal of scrolls on first few slots of your zhelm or int robe or whatever equip you're scrolling and you don't want the item to blow up or screw it up) or can also be used to scroll att gloves and what not.
• CS are not only for increasing att gear on capes or shoes but also used on tops/bottoms where 10% or 30% only gives +3 on stats but chaos can give +5, the same goes with gloves for att, helms and many more
• Not to mention to get the best results, especially in att gear, scrolling with both CS + WS to not miss a slot if CS failed.

As all of these will eventually be a thing here, if lets say the 200 people here have reached that end game point in a couple of months, I would say half of them will be going for WS for any or all of those reasons and lets assume perfecting a weapon only requires ~50 WS (which is an optimistic estimate), the amount of WS/CS a single person will be looking to get is quite high.

You can argue yes the demand will be higher but the supply will be increasing as well, as the server is only going to get more popular and gain players. Yes but the supply is only gonna get higher together with the player growth. The demand however will get higher exponentially both with the increasing amount of players as well as the increasing number of 4th job/end game players.

The supply might seem high now but I'm pretty confident in a few months time, it won't be and we can't just complain about this and expect to get it changed every time our demands change. In both ways; either the rates stay the same or decreased, the demand will be greater in the future, and when we get there, are we going to ask for an increase in the rates of these scrolls simply because we cannot scroll as much as we want? ..

On a side note, decreasing now back to what it was, where if a player got a WS miraculously became the richest in the game with the scrolls' high price, then later on getting to a point where people who need these scrolls end up not able to afford it and not being able to scroll their equips/gears as they wished would be quite problematic for the economy and the community.

So in my opinion, a decrease in rates are not needed as this temporary phase will be over when the average player is able to afford and eventually start buying these scrolls.

 

I personally don't think the rates should be nerfed to hell but I do see there being a problem and that we went from one extreme to another. Before hunting revamp it was rare to see a cs/ws on market but with it along with the increase in player population the price of the scrolls have literally been cut in half and continue to flood the market decreasing in price. I'm pretty sure now you can walk into any fm room and find a cs/ws for sale which is why I believe the rates should be adjusted.

 

Ok I'm going to address the two main criticisms to what I said: The nothing left to do mentality, and the eventual rise in demand.

The nothing left to do mentality is nothing I can personally speak to, and my goal isn't to tell other players how they will feel. I think it's impressive how all of you have reached the such and a high level and I applaud you. My logic behind this thinking was extrapolation from another v62 server that will not be mentioned. The server I am referring to has had a 3 year (?) up time and as such has an extreme level of economic elites; the elites have perfect weapons, 20+ att pgc', 15+ att face stompers, etc. The truth is that people may think they are impervious to end game boredom, but when you have reached a certain level of success there are no in-game goals, but rather just intra-player competition oriented goals. Again this isn't something I'm going to speak too much on as my goal isn't to tell end game players how they feel.

There are two ideas within this that I want to address: current maple economics, and hypothetical economics. Lionheart claimed that new players being given 80-100 million mesos is a good thing, I would say otherwise. In an economy where everybody has a ton of mesos, the market becomes satiated and inflation occurs. If every player has 10s of millions of mesos, then prices will start to reflect this (See the other v62 server as an example, where end game equips can go for as much as 30 billion mesos). This will be the death of a 1x meso and drop server, new players who gain mesos at absurdly low rates will be unable to keep up with the over-inflated market. (This is another issue, but it can simply be corrected via meso sinks. This is also why I think a very expensive boat skip is a good idea.) Anyways let's address the hypothetical future economics in which Lionheart asked where the extra demand would come from? Demand will occur in the form of low level players reaching end game at higher rates than ever before. Now Kelloggs mentioned that an equilibrium will be met, and price will rise, this is true. It could be hypothesized that the price will rise higher than ever before, along with the over-inflated economy. The more I type this, the more I realize the these scrolls are just a facet of an issue that every economy faces, and that is inflation.

This thread isn't about inflation, so I will keep this short. I think regardless of what is done in terms gachapon (I still think rates should be dropped), there needs to be implementations of various meso sinks. Anyways I just wanted to spark this metaphorical fire in the community, and hopefully get some ideas being generated in terms of this. Thanks for reading!

 

Except the problem with that reasoning is that these mesos already existed, but billions and billions were all concentrated within a very small group of players. Do you honestly think there won't be any inflation with that situation? No, see, the problem is we've already been set up to have inevitable inflation. It's just that there was nothing for the rich to buy, and the reason every single 30% scroll still wasn't being bought up was because of this "nothing left to do" mentality. No one was going to try for 6-7 successful 30% scrolls.

So what I'm saying is the inflation is already here, but hidden. We just can't see it until the very rich players actually have something to buy, and thus then more lower level players will definitely have much more mesos. But when everyone suddenly has more mesos in this situation, that doesn't mean the server has been flooded with mesos. Because - again - those mesos already existed. Now they have only changed owners... and been taxed like 4%.

Who said this? That is not the reason gachapon has been revamped. Gachapon has been revamped because us players that have been experiencing the old system for months on end have all voiced our opinions that it sucked, and the GMs thought about it and pretty much agreed.

 

Yes the mesos already existed, but they were laying latent. The surge of these scrolls is adding a significant amount of active mesos to the market; sure they existed before, but they are only now being used. Now that they are in flow, the market is actively being saturated, thus resulting in the the inflation that we agreed on. We have gotten off topic though. Inflation is a whole other issue that needs to be discussed elsewhere. I may make a thread later discussing the idea of meso sinks being implemented.

 

The fact that they are "latent" doesn't change anything. What, do you expect these older richer players to just keep accruing mesos like arcade game points with absolutely no use for them whatsoever?

One way or another, they have to be spent, eventually. And the problem isn't the present, when items that the rich want are actually available. The problem is the past, where there was just about nothing to spend those mesos on.

Also, don't bother starting another thread on the subject. We already have one about meso sinks.

https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/meso-sink-thread.6322/

 

Been playing just as long as dylan has and confirm just about everything dylan just said. Even back then when Zeretius was buying every ws possible for hundreds of millions each, he still barely amounted to lower double digits and had plenty of mesos to spare for more. After the first gach change everything was so rare to the point where the christmas event scrolls were extremely contested and of course extreme in price, im sure you remember it xNator. Even at 200m a pop, they were still bought and still contested. PAC rates were so bad that nightlords like celo and martin ended up scrolling socks that expired in a year, both not wanting to risk their current and only pac. Martin even made a vid about the rarity of chaoses and ws as a joke. Hell if you dig back, you'll see that a majority of the top players were complaining that there weren't enough items to achieve anything, and as a one of them i can tell you its the exact reason we quit. We had so much mesos but nothing to spend it on. I personally did a 1b and a 1.5b pump into the economy because i really had nothing to buy with my money and ended up controlling several item prices just due to the lack of items to buy. Be thankful that there actually items flowing now, because a majority of the new players will never understand the suffering a lot of the older players have gone through in order to progress the server.

Martin's vid:

 

I want to cry tears of joy