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Alt Tab Hurricane and Consistency Across different OS

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by -ovv, Jan 27, 2022.

  1. mard
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    mard Mixed Golem Retired Staff

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    Just wondering, how are bowmaster mains abusing sticky keys right now?
     
  2. OP
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I'm not going to say since that might be breeching ToS, but if you read through this thread again you'll probably figure it out.
     
  3. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    aint the meta now "gathering ur bms, nls, corsairs at the 8-handed god, then paper weight attacking on multiple pcs to get zak's pouch solely for yourself under 20mins?"
    u wont even need afk hurricane for that, just a paperweight will do.
     
  4. OP
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Hey man can you not discuss non-ToS things in my BM vs. MM thread
     
  5. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    I've highlighted the points where its concerning BM players in pink.

    2.8 Paperweight Botting

    2.5 Bug/Glitch Abuse
    Does this need to be updated because here it says theres an exception to AFK Hurricane in thread here https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...xplanations-precedents-interpretations.33574/ (I did not edit anything except the color of the text.)

     
  6. OP
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Anybody remember the Maple Tree event when it was painfully obvious that a ton of people were afk in the map paperweight botting to loot the leaf?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  7. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    Honestly, it is really the spirit that how much the rules can be enforced techinally through client coding.

    I know a few people just opening 2 PC and paper weight the 2nd PC with a 1 button attacker while mainly focuing on the first PC. It is literally the definitely of paper weight botting, but it is immpossible to get caught doing that. It is also immpossible to have evidence other than their words unless i am literally standing behind their shoulder.
    Despite all these going under the radar, we can't just say since we can't catch them, then just allow everyone to paper weight bot then.

    There is only so much the dev can do before it is left to the integerity of the players, especially on the newer bugs
     
  8. UnknownCode
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    UnknownCode Nightshadow

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    I find this as association and you should just report them.

    Its an exceptional bug atm thats in the ToS until its changed, as Nise said here

    So what I'd like to know is they "fixed" it for Windows albeit it works on macs?

    Why not fix both, or just don't and just let it be a feature?
     
  9. OP
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    -ovv Horntail

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    You're missing the point. Alt Tab hurricane and its on-going existence was brought up as a bug report in the past shortly after it had been 'fixed', and the only thing staff mentioned was that after their investigation, they found the person reporting it to have been using a 3rd party programs in order to replicate it, which would fall under the category botting/hacking. Unfortunately, this hardly answers the question nor does it fix the problem at hand.

    Alt tab hurricane was allowed on this server for 5 years before being addressed in a ToS update in which they tried to define bugs and clarify the various punishments related to each offense, and there was a big stink regarding the strict definition of alt tab hurricane as paperweight botting. Have fun going through this thread, it's a doozy. (https://forum.maplelegends.com/inde...xplanations-precedents-interpretations.33574/)

    It was a well known bug, and at the time, people used it openly despite it going against 'the spirit of the server' in that it's essentially paperweight botting. People went as far as to make Bowmasters for the sole purpose of using alt tab hurricane for things like CWKPQ/Archer Room since back then, it was considered a known bug/allowed 'feature.' However, once the explanation thread was released, the community cried out, and the exception was made that they classify alt tab hurricane as a bug that will eventually be fixed via code changes in later patches.

    Since then, the bug has been claimed as being fixed when it hasn't - there are still ways to replicate alt tab hurricane using an undetectable/indistinguishable method of key inputs (for windows using sticky key, for mac, I believe you can still just cmd-tab out and it will keep sending inputs). But as Pasta mentioned, this would be considered paperweight botting albeit being undetectable like any other case of people being able to skirt paperweight botting bans by simply paying attention.

    So that begs the question - has alt tab hurricane actually been fixed, or does it just exist in a different form?

    Is the solution to multiclienting a bowmaster just to purchase more and more computers?

     
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
  10. Pasta
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    Pasta Game Developer Staff Member Game Developer

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    I would like to clarify on this - the actual bug that allowed Hurricane to work by simply alt-tabbing to a different window has been fixed. It was a missing trigger in the client that wouldn't stop certain effects, such as ongoing keydown actions like Hurricane.

    The current version of it comes from a different issue, the very way keydown effects are coded. There's a couple of solutions I'm studying on to correct that, either via client changes or class rebalance. We should be approaching a few interesting patches.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 8
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  11. OP
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Although I'm glad that Bowmasters are getting looked into for possible changes or rebalancing, I really do hope that there is a significant amount of in-game play testing for realistic (bossing) situations before any of these changes are implemented. For example, I could potentially see recoding of Hurricane/keydown client changes affecting BM buffering techs, which would be yet another reductive change to the class.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    In the same way, making stick keys not work gonna hurt corsair and mm gameplay. We need to jump attack on many situations to make up for low avoid and not being able to buffer. It`s useful in situation we need to walk long distances and attack at the same time/repositon. MM/Sair/BM not being able to shoot from the air is already a big annoyance and jump attack brings more possibilities for gameplay. Jump attacking for MM is already a limited feature as, when we jump attack foward, we always lose frames in comparison to strafe + snipe on the ground. The highest our jump attribute is, more frames we lose (optimized MM can`t even use high jump event rings). In this sense, let us, at least, have jump attack.
     
  13. OP
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I think what Pasta was implying was implementing jump attacking via code so that it's not restricted to Windows only players. AFAIK, Mac users cannot utilize sticky keys, so they're at a severe disadvantage. This is the same discrepancy across OS that I'd like to see changed out of the game so that player experience remains consistent across the different OS.
     
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  14. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    Yeah, i know. But im just reinforcing this because patching stick keys would be a really throwback in MM/sair gameplay optimization.
     
  15. OP
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    -ovv Horntail

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    How so? If they implemented a way for players to jump attack consistently, it'd remove the need for Sticky Keys. I'd think it'd actually improve the QoL so that players could keybind their attack skills onto whatever they'd like. It would also allow for Corsairs to proiperly buffer rapid fire if they have their rapid fire key bound to Shift.
     
  16. Feeed
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    Feeed Mr. Anchor

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    Being allowed to do it legally would be sick. As it currently stands you not only have to breach ToS for optimal dps, but also give yourself carpal tunnel with the way your keys need to be bound
     
  17. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    I meant removing it without any other change in QoL
     
  18. OP
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I mean I would consider that a reductive change, similar to how alt tab was basically a 'featured bug' and then was removed without any other adjustments.

    Even shadow star got a duration buff from their bug fix.
     
  19. Toon
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    Toon Capt. Latanica

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    I believe the two situations are completly distintic. Jump attack brings more diversity to gameplay of non NL classes, while alt tab hurricane just let u paper weight botting without a 2nd computer. In this sense, alt tab hurricane is much less reasonable to remain a featured bug than stick keys jump attacking. Also, it`s possible to jump attack without stick keys anyways so it`s not like it simulates a impossible action like pasta mentioned before.
     
  20. OP
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    -ovv Horntail

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    This is a distinction of perspective. I find using sticky key to jump attack as a means to gain a mechanical advantage in repositioning your character to optimize your dpm. You can also jump attack without sticky key, although it would be much more difficult and less consistent. Should this jump attack consistency be guaranteed? No, but because it has been a 'featured bug' in this game for so long, many corsairs/mms think so. Likewise, I also find using alt tab hurricane a mechanical advantage to optimize dpm on a secondary client. Sure, you can click out of client and click back, but the dpm is lost in the stop/start time of hurricane.

    I get that alt tab hurricane is something fairly exploitable, but I find the complete removal of it without considering alternative options to be the same reductive nature of change/implementations as would removing Sticky Keys/jump attack from Corsairs and MM. If they can code for jump attack to work, why can't staff also consider a way to preserve BM's multiclientability a bit more? For example, giving BMs 5 line strafe alongside their Marksmen counterparts would be a lateral change that would increase BM multiclient ability. At the moment, Marksmen are better multiclient attackers than BMs outside of abusing alt tab hurricane/paperweighting/using an extra computer.

    Edit: Another thing could be reducing the lag time between Hurricane start up. This would marginally increase a Bowmaster's multliclientability dpm loss.
     

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