Alt Tab Hurricane and Consistency Across different OS

Out of curiosity, would this also count towards using 3 of the same abilities on a skill macro and swapping clients?
e.g Power Strike, Power Strike, Power Strike. (Magic Claw, Lucky7/Triple Throw, Strafe.)

I'd also like to mention how to replicate it for macOS since Kimberly asked about it here
https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/afk-hurricane-still-works.40688/#post-272401

You simply just hold your Hurricane hotkey using your mouse go over to any other client and simultaneously release Hurricane while clicking the selected client.

Edit: It only works while lagging. (tested with vpn)

 

Slightly unrelated, but is it confirmed that marksmen outshine bowmasters in all content? It's pretty clear that MM are better at PB (given how broken snipe is) but I'm actually not aware if that's the case at HT/NT. I suspect that they're pretty similar, although I'm happy to be proven wrong (although that'll just illustrate the poor balance between the two classes).

 

That is pretty much the case. At HT it is debatable, both classes are difficult to optimize in their own way and their dpm is comparable. BM have the advantage of being more flexible in being able to do more single target damage from the left and right plus the non-reliance on SI, while marksmen have the advantage from blind and slightly more overall dpm via cleaving. In any other content MM is clearly superior, with extreme god tier equipment the gap can be made to be not too big, but MM will still be superior.

 

At the risk of furthering the derailment of the original topic, I'd say there isn't really sufficient data to make any claims with confidence considering there are so few individuals from both classes that post DPM results (and numbers from bosses that aren't HT and PB are non-existent). That being said, I would say that BMs outshine MMs in nameless, dunas (with a pinner), HT and CWK, with MMs maybe being better everywhere else.

Comparing shad cleave DPM to BM single target DPM would be comparing apples to oranges though. Average DPM45 for a shad focusing heads as sed is in the low 5s (I really hope the average 200 BM does more than that), and in the low to mid 6s as not sed. Over 30% of overall shad cleave damage is also going to wings anyways after factoring in head cancels, but I digress.

I would posit that the primary factor behind the apparent discrepancy between median BM and MM DPM in HT for end game players isn't so much an inherent class issue as it is a skill issue, and I don't find any fault with MMs performing better on the average but losing out significantly to BMs at the highest level. With respect to single target DPM, the highest DPM45 any MM has ever gotten in HT is ~7m and that's with perf timeless and the whole shebang, whereas the highest DPM45 a BM has gotten is well over 8. While it's true that with cleaving an MM can close this gap, it is obvious that single target damage is much preferable over cleave damage of the same amount as cleave damage is mostly moot if it doesn't far exceed single target damage (not to mention that about 20% of that cleave damage is wing damage). Also, if an MM cleaves they activate right arm, which is detrimental to squad DPM.

And that's not even touching the topic of SI-reliance, i.e. for an MM to perform optimally an NL slot has to be given up for a bucc, which can only really be justified damage-wise for the squad as a whole if it is comprised mostly of rare high-performing sairs and/or warriors (what gain is there in doing more damage if it comes at the expense of overall squad DPM and ultimately results in a net loss).

Yeah, BMs might require more skillful play to do superior damage but class balance shouldn't revolve around the average player, especially when you consider how bad the average player must be when you have 30k HP chars dying in PB (omegalul). That said, I'm completely for changes that further distinguish the two classes from each other (as with heroes and DKs), like perhaps further buffing pierce cleave or blind utility while buffing BM single target.

 

You meant marksman + SI, because marksman itself is still kinda meh.
You have to accommodate for SI is bossing situtation regardless its a SI mule or bucc player makes your party forming more restricted.
The lack of hurricane buffering still make right side HT a much poorer experience for MM.
In cwk, BM out right shits on MM with hamstring.
BM vs MM thread, here we go

Back to the topic.
The current stance on hurricane is that it should not be able to afk-hurricane.
If it is still able to afk-hurricane, then it should be consider as a bug report.

 

You were trying to drive your point home about BMs, a ranged class, by emphasizing that even a shad, a cleave class, as sed would have a higher DPM45 on average than a BM. Of course a shad will have a higher DPM45 than BMs when cleaving. Heck, they'll have a higher DPM45 on average than all ranged classes but that doesn't say anything about the performance of those classes. Hence my comparison of shad's single target damage; it doesn't make sense to compare cleave DPM to single target DPM in an effort to highlight the state of the latter. Otherwise heroes and DKs would be the undisputed kings of HT.

This is kind of besides the point in the bigger discussion but just to nitpick, sed insurance aside, you'd be better off having a hero or DK cleaving just heads than having a shad cleave as not only would the former have a comparable if not higher DPM45 but their damage would also be more meaningful. As for switching over to single-target, can't heroes and DKs just back up?

All of the 7m single target damage results that we've seen from MMs that didn't focus wings (all two of them) are also from hyper funded players with cracked gear such that they've been significantly stronger than most other level 200 archers for a while already. I don't know if there are any other BMs or MMs that have that same level of funding, my point being that the numbers we see at the top for both sides are in no way representative of typical performance and because of insufficient data points we really can't adequately entertain the question posed earlier.

We've got two 7m results from two cracked 19x MMs, one 4m result from a 15x MM with above average gear, some 8m+ results from a cracked 200 BM and a low 6m result from a modestly geared 19x BM. How can we fill in the blanks? Any statement regarding the average performance of each class can only be conjecture at this point. What we do likely have though are the respective relative highs.

I'd also argue that MMs simply have a lower skill ceiling; you don't need a thousand hours to perform well on one and I'm skeptical of there being undiscovered tech for MMs (though I'd love nothing more than to be wrong).

We also only ever really see the DPM45s of the most skilled and geared sairs and buccs, but I bet the numbers for your average sair and bucc in HT are abysmal. They definitely don't need buffs though.

Like you said, because of the way arms behave it's currently not even known known whether MMs choosing to cleave actually reduces run time compared to just strafing the heads. The strongest squad at present tries to keep right arm from ever activating. It could very well be that MMs are better off focusing wings when RH is cancelled in a squad with no cleavers.

Anyways, sorry for completely derailing the thread

 

(LOL i wrote this before reading gurk last post. Mb for redundancy)

Reinforcing some of Gurk appointments and giving my insight on BM x MM at HT:

1. PA damage is fake and activates right arm, making it cast seal, darkness and so on. I don't think that the cleave dpm boost makes up for activating right arm skills.

2. End game freefire dpm from BM is much higher than similar geared MM. Roughly, it's like 12m from MM and 13 from BM. Snipe defense avoidance can't get even close to make up for that gap (highest dpm 1 for pre heads 10.05 x 11m). Besides that, any upgrade after this point scales better for BMs than MM and cost more than 10 ws per attack.

3. MM is reliant on SI and can only hit heads constantly on left side. Today, for instance, i did 5 men HT and the NLs had to jump over to get SE. A BM focusing on right head alongside NLs is less dpm loss than making them jump over. I'm unsure if this strategy is better than staying right side along NLs and strafe + snipe wings when right head is canceled. The 2nd option may be better because after finishing all heads we had to hit wings for a couple of minutes. I'm going to test on the next runs.

4. Skar is more skilled than the MM horde, but skill can't make up for 1.5 dpm difference in this level of gameplay. Also, skar uses coke pill and soul arrow.


BMs are better than MM at HT. The 17-19x BMs (that can't reach 7m) you are comparing to the 19x MMs aren't the same caliber in terms of gear.

 

Personally I think BMs can be slightly buffed in damage- wonder if there's a way to do it as a multiplier such that the top end BMs benefit more than the average BM? BMs with god tier equips that are also solid and practiced mechanically should at least be comparable at PB, and currently they are clearly not.

However, I would say BMs are completely superior to MMs at HT. MMs are okay on the left side of HT hitting LH/MH, but as soon as focus shifts to the RH/MH, they have very few options to optimize as a single target attacker. I've also experimented with the HT cleave strat multiple times now and although I've noticed about a ~800k increase in my DPM45, it hasn't sped up my runs. Maybe it could be useful to cleave in certain compositions, but I would say in the vast majority of cases it's better for the MM to focus on single target DPM and a well geared 190+ BM that knows what they're doing should be preferred in HT in almost all cases.

On the topic of discussion though, I really disagree that enabling Alt+Tab hurricane is a good way to balance them just so they can multiclient attack on multiple characters. I would rather see them get a scaling damage buff or some sort of edge at PB imo.

 

If you consider horntail's high weapon defense, my take is that marksman with SI is as good as, or slightly better than bowmaster in horntail due to blind. Blind is a pretty significant avoid boost that benefits the entire party. Without SI, bowmaster is certainly better as the damage gap is much wider.

Overall, depending on how much you value being SI independent, I would agree with the MMs on this thread that BM > MM overall in HT. But if buccaneers are standardized onto HT runs, or a perma SI mule is available, I would find it very hard to justify that BM is strictly superior to MM.

 

Just give BM a dpm boost rather than afk hurricane kekhands