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Warrior Breaking the HT META: A guide to achieving significantly more DPM

Discussion in 'Jobs' started by Alyosha, Jul 29, 2018.

  1. Zyku
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    Zyku Stone Golem

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    But the CD for HH begins right when you hit the key at the start of the animation not the end of it so 6 HH would be a better use for estimating DPM over completely removing a whole 10 seconds by saying 5 HH MapleF3 NiseNise (Idk why I am just now reading this thread lol)
     
  2. Taida
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    Taida Mixed Golem

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    mfw this is one of the first things I see looking at the forums in awhile SeemsGood
     
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  3. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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  4. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    Almost 1 year has passed, and no one was willing to take advantage of the great wisdom OP shared with us in this thread. Thus I have brought it upon myself to test if pally mules really are a practical way to increase dpm in HT. Here is the result,
    [​IMG]
    Now let me give some context for how significant this number is.

    My level 199 bowmaster averages around ~7.5m dpm over the course of an HT body (on stew).
    The level 200 NL on the same run averaged roughly 10m dpm on stew.

    The fact that a lvl 139 paladin mule with 50 base str that took me 3 weeks to make can do 4.4m dpm on its own just by pressing 1 button every 10 seconds is extremely impressive.

    The difficulty of controlling a HH mule while maintaining your main attacker is admittedly non-trivial, it took me a while to get use to tabbing back and forth between clients smoothly. But by the end of the run I got the hang of it and it felt as natural as attacking normally on a single client. Considering the fact that I was able to dual client pretty easily with an archer, it should be much easier for classes that have stance or high avoid.


    As for pot burn, the HH mule burned about 300 ginseng roots and 400 honsters over the course of 1 run, so roughly 1.5-2m in pots. This can be optimized a bit further by leveling the pally to level 159, when you have max achilles and guardian. Given that people spend money on apples/stews to get extra dpm and speed up the run, I think its perfectly reasonable to pay less than 1 apples worth of money to do an extra 250m damage on a run.

    In conclusion, I sincerely believe that pally mules are an extremely effective and pragmatic way of boosting dpm in HT parties, and I would highly recommend people who are comfortable with HT mechanics or feel that HT is too boring at times (you are for the most part holding down 1 button for 2 hours) to consider making a pally mule. When the game gives you a 2 hour timer, throw pally mules at it.
     
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  5. Soniii
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    Soniii Mixed Golem

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    marry me skarmory
     
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  6. OP
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    Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    :pinkbean::pinkbean::pinkbean::pinkbean::pinkbean::pinkbean::pinkbean:

    Time to make 4 more. Or 3 more and a Missaneer as a sed mule. You just need a total of 666 dex and you'll have capped avoid. Level matters a lot with avoid so they'd have to be level 160. After avoid is capped just add only HP. Probably possible to hit ~20-24k HP by 160 for a sed mule that will very rarely get hit. MapleF14

    But then again HH mules already make great sed mules.
     
  7. ThePotatoSalad
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    ThePotatoSalad Windraider

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    If you have time to make 10 HH mules, you should just try to make 10 smokescreen mules instead(you can bring 1 TL mule for safety).
    https://bbb.hidden-street.net/character/class/shadower
    Your team become indestructible and can beat almost all bosses without spending any hp pots(need enough dmg tho).

    But the real question is :
    [​IMG]

    Also your social life status:
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Just wanna point out the DPM is heavily inflated, in case it convinces people wrongly that Pally is a brain dead class that should be muled like crazy. (the class is definitely easy to pilot with minimal investment, more so than a MM probably, but that's been covered enough times in various threads).

    PSA for those not familiar with HT or Paladins, it says 255m DPM because of the shit load of wyverns that end up popping out at that stage of HT. As for the actual damage you're doing to Horntail, you won't be at 255m DPM.

    Following OP's math: 200k damage every 10 seconds for the 6 targets of HT (three heads, 2 arms, wings). 200,000*6*6 = 7.2 mil DPM. Even if you start while the legs & tails are up (which is pretty suicidal, since you'll just aggro everything instantly and make the run miserable for the other attackers and esp bishops), it would max out at 200,000*6*8 = 9.6 mil DPM. If you look at the SS, only two heads are up at that point. The less parts that are up, the less damage you'll be doing by solely Heavens Hammering.

    If you're a Paladin main (and not a mule), this is where you're single target attack (blast) will do more damage than if you were spamming HH. Two heads: 200,000*6*2 = 2.4 mil DPM, while an average gear pally should be doing like 5 mil DPM to the heads solely from using blast.

    Tldr to burst your bubble (whoever might be reading my long rant), Pally's won't realistically be hitting that DPM on Horntail (it'll be on wyverns).

    Written by an ex-Pally main that wish he could see that DPM at Horntail pepehands
     
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  9. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Ok. well most horntail groups need to clear the wyverns anyways because they can cause problems if left unchecked.

    Also she did an @DPM 60, or 1 hour. I just do not think that wyverns spawning significantly increase the DPM over that long of a time period.

    In horntail everything is aggro'd at the start anyways, so what is the harm in having the HH mule put in work at the beginning? On average , lets just say only 3 parts of horntail are active for the majority of the run. That is still 3.6m DPM. I think that even 3.6m is worthwhile. Thats pretty much increasing her archer dps by 50%.

    Sure, what OP said is not realistic, but Skar has certainly proved that a HH mule is worthwhile.
     
  10. Selquin
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    Selquin Headless Horseman

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    Firstly I would agree that pally is not a braindead class, its only braindead if you choose to play it as a mule and are only pressing HH every 10 seconds. Secondly I would like to challenge this notion that the wyverns heavily inflate the HH damage. Lets go back to the theory for a second.

    At the start of a Horntail run during the leg + tail phase, I put that pally on the highest ledge next to the mid head to hit 5 body parts for a total of roughly 6m dpm. I seem to recall people trying to not pull the head aggro during the leg phase a long time ago, but in this age that strategy is outdated and everyone immediately cleaves as many parts as they can as soon as the run starts. This phase lasts about 10min or so.
    The next phase is after the tail dies, I put the pally in the middle and jump + HH to hit 6 body parts. This phase lasts roughly about 10min until the wing dies. 7.2m dpm.
    The next phase the pally hits 5 parts for 6m dpm. This lasts for another 10min or so.
    At some point the right head dies and you are hitting the arm for 4.8m dpm. This lasts for 5min or so.
    Next is the left arm, you are hitting 3 parts for 3.6m dpm. This lasts for about 10min.
    Finally is the last 2 heads. If you team is competent, they will distribute damage amongst the two heads evenly to have them die at the same time (this is already done anyways to avoid having to wait for cancels on 1 head). So you spend the remaining 25min or so at 2.4m dpm.

    With these rough estimates, we can make a first order approximation for the expected dpm.
    [6m*(10) + 7.2m*(10) + 6m*(10)+ 4.8m*(5) + 3.6m*(10) + 2.4m*(25)] /(10 + 10 + 10+ 5 +10 +25) = 4.4m
    So the numbers do in fact seem to line up!

    Now to address the wyvern thing more directly, I would like to point out that you actually dont hit wyverns that much of the time until you get to the end of the run. During the right side phase you will usually have a bishop spamming genesis near the middle to do extra damage, and this usually clears the wyverns (at least this was the case for the run on which I did the dpm test). Because of this its actually pretty rare for HH which activates in 10 seconds intervals to hit any wyverns. Also even when wyverns are hit, you should keep in mind that HH does not do 200k damage on them since they dont have that much health.

    Anyways I was aware of the wyverns inflating the damage to some degree, but I don't think its so significant that the whole experiment is invalidated. The wyvern damage should be viewed as a 2nd order correction rather than something that completely skews the @dpm.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
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  11. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Just had a blast from the past moment here... and Alyosha the oracle... she saw it coming xD
     
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  12. Lulinya
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    Lulinya Selkie Jr.

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    When will the game actually balance, when will the end game boss takes less than an hour least to finish, when will the boss drops splits equally to everyone in the server, when will the "stats giving scrolls" droprate is not 3 hours least each, when will "scroll for def" stop dropping for every single minute, when will the rope climbing speed is improved, when will the server reward everyone the same no matter how much time you invested, when will the scrolling system is fixed to be more legit, when will ap reset is 300 NX each, when will events actually enjoyable.
    When will bosses stop being farmed and actually a statue of achievement, when will all bosses hit 35k damage if you don't avoid its ultimate, when will bossing not being braindead and boring.
     
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  13. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Are you... okay?
     
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