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GUIDE - Comprehensive Guide to Magatia Party Quest

Discussion in '(Party) Quests' started by AudreySP, May 2, 2022.

  1. OP
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    AudreySP Slime

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    All of this is great! There's a few things you mentioned that I completely forgot to mention at all like the sneaking (I play on max resolution so I forgot that's something that some need to do) I'll make sure to add it all when I get the chance this weekend :D thank you so much for all this info!
     
  2. OP
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    Thanks for fixing it for me it means a lot! A few suggestions I can make would be to increase the drop rate of the key cards in stage 4 (since they're still not that good) and maybe something in-game that can help with the platform stage (that's not party chat) to make it easier to figure out what platforms you have. Idk how hard something like this can be but maybe some kind of projection system? What I mean by that is you can sort of see the movements and drops of the party members in the other rooms sort of as "phantoms" where it can be made obvious that they're illusions in some aspect. That way people can probably do something similar to that of OPQ where they mark what platforms are correct and each person drops their own respective etc. item (either one of their own or perhaps something provided?) That can help mark on your screen what platforms you and your teammates have. There's probably an easier and more intuitive way to do it and idk how confusing it could be to understand at first. Something that can work with that too would be to have all players able to talk in "all" chat for easier communication or something. Idk how hard it'll be to implement something like that (it sounds like something that would be a pain in the ass to program) but hopefully something can make that stage more streamlined. Hell, maybe each player can get a message in the chat referring to the phantoms that can make it easier for first-timers to understand wtf is going on since it could be really confusing in practice
     
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  3. thsscapi
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    thsscapi Mushmom

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    There are 2 suggestions that I've been thinking about that I believe would help:
    1. Link the Mu Lung region with the Nihal Desert region.
    2. Have Alcadno/Zenumist quests (or even Mu Lung) give a limited amount of these Alcadno/Zenumist Marbles.

    I know these suggestions don't change anything in the PQ directly, but hear me out:
    - They are neighbouring regions on the World Map ( :p just kidding, it doesn't matter)
    - Magatia quests begin before lv 35, right after most of the quests in Ariant, then end around lv 50+. After that, there are less than a handful of quests here at lv 60 and 65, then another batch at lv 70 to 75 that involves the PQ. Most of these are not in MPQ's level range, and they don't give anything that players consider useful.
    - However, many quests in this level range revolve around Mu Lung and Herb Town.
    - By linking these 2 regions, there would be more players of the right level range in the area.
    - Pirate PQ's level range and MPQ's level range overlaps. Players at lv 50+ are eligible to do OPQ, LMPQ, and EPQ, which are all linked directly. So these players can travel between all 3 PQ lobbies rather easily. Why not the same for PPQ and MPQ?
    - The one redeeming factor of Nihal Desert's inaccessibility is the one-way travel back to Victoria Island. So this link would also allow quicker travel to Victoria from multiple regions: Mu Lung (duh), Aqua Road, and KFT, which are all places that are considered to be furthest away from Victoria Island.
    - The quests here revolve around Alcadno and Zenumist. A subset of these quests also require their respective untradeable Capes, which are considered useless by most players even after they are upgraded and become tradeable (did you know there are tradeable versions?). Having Marbles as additional rewards would make the quests worthwhile.
    - Once players receive a few Marbles, the pendant suddenly becomes much more desirable.
     
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  4. JKNS
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    JKNS Selkie Jr.

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    If we're going to link Nihal Desert with any region, the one that makes the most sense to me is to link it with the other most isolated main-continent region in the game in El Nath. The late portions of the Magatia questline (which is probably my favorite questline in the game factoring in game lore and storycrafting) require multiple instances of travel between Magatia and El Nath to talk with Eurek the Alchemist (who is available in other regions) and Alcaster (who you have to talk to multiple times). The questline also only lets you pick one of the capes, if you even go the cape route (and there is a third option which ignores the capes altogether, which is the option I always pick when doing the quests anyway because the options with the capes make you feel pretty scummy).

    Not sure giving marbles as rewards would help draw to the PQ: the pendant just isn't good enough as it is. Even if you stay to roll a high-stat pendant, the tradeability of the Deputy Star and potential 20 extra levels of use you get out of it, along with the ease of getting a MoN with basically zero effort after MPQ levels means that even this version of the buffed Horus' Eye isn't seen as worthwhile to many. I truly think for this PQ to really be seen as worth the time and effort, it would have to be something in the range of a +12-14 all stat. Buffing from a +3 to a +6-8 is a nice start, but it honestly needs more.
     
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  5. OP
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    I fully agree with this! Having the two regions Nath and Magatia linked together is a really great idea! The marble quest rewards seems interesting as well, but tbh the pendant really needs another buff lol. I would also like an increase in the level limit to around 90 so more people have time to do it. Also I'm really glad they're making changes to all PQs soon, I'm really looking forward to it and I'm really excited!
     
  6. JKNS
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    JKNS Selkie Jr.

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    I’d actually prefer the PQ to start at late 3rd. One of the biggest issues is that late 3rd is among the worst content voids right now: basically everyone is advised to leech from 100 onward (minus a few jobs) as it blows basically every other option out of the water. MPQ is also quite difficult for early 3rd job characters as it has a large jump in terms of mobs dealing damage and having a chunky HP threshold. 90-110 or 100-119 are fine level ranges to me (please don’t allow Mage ults in MPQ lol).
     
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  7. thsscapi
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    I'm confused why it would be 20 extra levels.
    If you get all the pendants, you would use Silver Deputy Star from lv 50 to 75-ish, then Horus' Eye from lv 75-ish to 109, then MoN from lv 110 onwards.
    Oh, El Nath makes sense too, but only convenience-wise.
    I only picked Mu Lung because I don't think El Nath fits in, lore-wise. The Ossyria continent is also already connected directly to Nihal Desert.

    You may notice my suggestions only make sense from an in-game perspective (e.g. Zenumist quest giving Zenumist Marbles). I admit that such changes to the game will be much less impactful than changes that affect the game meta directly.
    However, I personally think that making changes based on game meta is very dangerous. (E.g. We could justify the Dimensional Mirror NPC that connects all PQ lobbies with this reason. This is just one of the more extreme examples that could be a whole other discussion.)
    That said, I do also recognise such changes will need to be made sometimes, but I'll leave those suggestions up to other players who have a better grasp of the meta.
     
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  8. OP
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    That sounds like a good idea! Yeah, there isn't much 100+ :( I really want to do more PQs but there's really nothing left so I'm at a loss rn so having it at late 3rd is smart
     
  9. JKNS
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    JKNS Selkie Jr.

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    The fact you had the Deputy Star from 50 in the first place. Call it 25 levels then, and probably closer to 30 since the base Horus is worse too.

    The Ossyria continent has all of Orbis, El Nath, Aqua, Nihal Desert, Mu Lung, Herb Town, and Minar Forest. There’s more lore and content to connect Magatia with El Nath than there is with Mu Lung (which has its quest content connections with KFT, a region you can easily access via Dolphin Taxi in Aqua).

    Not sure just straight offering Marbles for only this PQ makes sense: would we adjust Orbis questlines for feathers or add fragments for the Ellin Forest questline? What about those who complete this questline well after 86, when exchanging marbles for rewards is blocked off because it requires an Angry Frank MPQ clear to enter? I think it works if you make all PQ rewards easier to obtain through questlines, since none of the PQ rewards are all that worth getting relative to effort to begin with: they’re for fun, but worthwhile is tied into the quality of the reward which is pretty much lacking across the board. Ease of access won’t change that compared to giving actual reasons to PQ outside of enjoying them.
     
  10. thsscapi
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    Thanks for the clarification. I did not know this.
    The reward being blocked off is somewhat minimised by the fact that the last quest in the questline (Keeny's Research on Frankenroid) cannot be accepted after lv 85. While I recognise that players can still be stuck with useless Marbles, I don't believe that is reason enough to not give them out.

    Take the questlines involving diary pages from OPQ (The Record of Goddess Minerva), and those in Herb Town requiring items/kills from PPQ. These quests also require you to participate in an optional part of the PQ, and you are also left with useless items/quests once you out-level the PQ. Granted, these are tradeable and not tied to an exclusive reward. I admit this is not a strong point.
    Yes, I agree that the cost of running 20~35 runs of MPQ in its current state is not worth the pendant reward. But adjusting the cost will definitely impact the worthiness of the PQ. You said it yourself: "none of the PQ rewards are all that worth getting relative to effort to begin with". It then follows, that reducing the effort will make the PQ more worthwhile.

    The ease of access, or cost of getting the reward is as important as the reward itself.

    Case in point, the patch last year for PQs reduced the number of runs required for all PQs. This significantly boosted the popularity of all affected PQs. Giving players Marbles from quests is another way to reduce the runs.
     
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  11. JKNS
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    JKNS Selkie Jr.

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    The Magatia questline I’m talking about excludes all the PQ-optional quests and is strictly about the Silver Pendant and Black Mage’s Laboratory. Those optional quests with the Lab Report from Roids (one side of which was bugged years ago and may still not be fixed) aren’t even necessary to get the Horus’ Eye, while MPQ itself is.

    Cutting PQs came out the same time as the Anniversary event which rewarded event points for PQ clears. PQs more or less went back to the same popularity as their pre-reduced count clears or buffed reward numbers once the event ended. I would like to see PQs get out of the “do strictly for fun” territory they’re relegated to now, especially MPQ which coincides with the best leech period in the game.

    I don’t understand giving out PQ currency as an exclusive right to MPQ. If we switch all six main PQs to a currency system and weave in currency to those area questlines, sure (not sure how that happens for Kerning, but it’s doable for the other five regions to some degree). The main issue with the Horus’ Eye’s accessibility is the brutality of the PQ for early 3rd and its direct competition with WR/CDs and WS leech. Just move the PQ level range back to late 3rd and buff its reward: the rest just feels like addressing things that aren’t actually relevant to the lack of popularity of this PQ as a whole.
     
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  12. thsscapi
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    Yes, this questline is only available after you have completed Keeny's Research on Frankenroid. So only players who have completed up to this point can possibly be stuck with Marbles.
    You seem to be very opposed to exclusivity as a whole. Why can't it be exclusive?
    • KPQ is exclusively the only PQ where the reward (a potentially better version, too) is obtainable in the PQ itself. Some players stop running the PQ once they get a better shoe. Why don't other PQs have this?
    • EPQ is exclusively the only PQ where the exchange system gives you an option to choose between the base earring or upgrading their earring. Players can run it multiple times and simply keep exchanging for the base earring. Why don't other PQs have this?
    • PPQ is exclusively the only PQ where doing more runs lets players get better versions of the same reward. Like EPQ, players can keep resetting their run count to only obtain the base helmet. Unlike EPQ, because there's no currency, once reset, players cannot simply choose the upgraded helmet, but have to do all 60 runs again for it. The upgraded helmet also doesn't "eat up" the preceding versions. Why don't other PQs have this?
    • In all PQs other than MPQ, you can complete the PQs and obtain their rewards without ever doing other related quests. Why is MPQ the only one where the reward is locked behind an addtional questline?
    Every PQ is different and has its own unique mechanic.

    Just from writing the above points, it's clear to me that an additional questline being required for the PQ reward is a huge turnoff for many players. To be able to obtain the pendant, they can't simply be carried through MPQ like you can with other PQs; their characters must complete some quests, some of which is hard for washing characters.

    So, should we remove the questline? That would make MPQ in line with other PQs. Perhaps we should find a way to make the questline part of the PQ? How about... having the questline give Marbles so completing it isn't something "additional", but instead helps you progress towards the PQ reward?
    if the quests in Magatia gave Marbles as a reward from the very beginning, nobody would question "Why is MPQ the only one with such a mechanic?". Because everyone benefits from it.

    Now, if MPQ is the only one to have PQ currencies as quest rewards, is that such a bad thing? Exclusivity is not detrimental if everybody benefits from it.
    Changing numbers, IMO, is a very lazy way to solve issues, and is really only a band-aid. Buffing its reward is good for now, but what happens when new, competing rewards are added in future?

    For example, say there is a new pendant at lv 90. Unless Horus' Eye is buffed to best-in-slot, it suddenly becomes obsolete. So then, the new pendant will have to account for the buffed Horus' Eye. Why though? Why should a number change now affect the implementation of future content? Should we then nerf the buffed Horus' Eye in future? Should we then increase the new pendant's required level to 100 so the Horus' Eye is still "worth it"? This could potentially go in a never-ending loop and make balancing really difficult.

    Case in point (again), the PQ patch previously reduced number of runs and buffed rewards. Now, with MoN and HTP being even more accessible than before, Horus' Eye is less popular again. Do we change the numbers, again? It never ends.

    All that said, and I haven't even thought about what happens to players with existing rewards if they were to be changed. Now, that would really be unfair.
     
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  13. JKNS
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    There is no additional questline outside of the really easy, PQ-mimicing three Yulete prequests for a Horus' Eye. All you've ever needed from my experience is one Angry Frank clear to enter the sewer portal with Yulete to do the prequests for exchanging. Keeny's Research and the Zenumist/Alcadno Lab Reports are no different than Minerva Diary Pages or PPQ side quests that just give extra EXP: it's all filler bonuses. We're discussing something that doesn't actually exist (a questline that theoretically gates MPQ but doesn't actually do so: it just gives EXP).

    If you want those optional PQ quests to be the only ones to give marbles, that's fine. Keep marbles out of the actual main questline, which has no relation to the PQ at all.

    And for the record, I have two pre-buffed Horus' Eye, as well as the pre-buff Wristbands and each of the pre-buff Pirate Hats. One of those PQs is negative fun, and none of them are still worth doing for the rewards, only for the fun.

    PQs need to be made worth doing independent of rewards. You can buff their rewards to be enough to a point: it's not like those have to be the only rewards with stats messed around with (such as how ML MoN is a considerably nerfed version of the original in terms of W.Atk). Adjust EXP, adjust reward stats, adjust level ranges: just don't add random things that don't make sense.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. thsscapi
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    Keeny's Research questline needs to be completed. Specifically, Keeny's Research on Frankenroid is the quest that asks players to kill Angry Franky. Players must complete this quest before they can accept the PQ-mimicing requests from Yulete. (But yes, the Lab Reports quest is not part of this chain and operate similar to Diary Pages and PPQ ones.)
    Things that don't make sense to you simply mean you cannot relate to them.

    I'm not sure you understand the idea behind making suggestions. Players make suggestions, and everyone (i.e. all types of Maplers) discusses them to better fit the objectives of the changes. A suggestion doesn't have to make sense to you.

    Sure, go ahead to ask for clarification of the suggestion (as you did when you said you didn't understand the point of it), but there is no need to dismiss them, especially if it's only because you can't make sense of it (as you've been doing). That's not how good ideas/solutions come about.

    How do you think Maple has so many unique PQs, each one different from the rest? KPQ counted runs for rewards, then devs came up with the idea of PQ currency for EPQ, allowing players to choose their exchange reward. At the time, this idea must have been "random", coming out of nowhere, or "don't make sense", because run counts worked perfectly fine, why do we need PQ currency exchange?

    If you don't agree with a suggestion, just add your own suggestions to the pool and make a better-convincing case to the community. If the majority and/or staff decides changing numbers is the best way forward, I would be behind that change. At that point, perhaps I'm the one who doesn't understand the numbers change, but dismissing it due to my own lack of understanding would have been my own mistake.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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    iPippy Headless Horseman

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    Can we get another title change to remove "guide" :confused:? This thread is now only 10% mpq guide, 30% spelling guide, and 60% suggestion thread. Don't want to confuse the player looking to learn to PQ.
     
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  16. OP
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    The word guide is fine, since the original post in the thread is, well, a guide. It's in-depth and in-detail to try to cover as much as possible. It doesn't matter if a lot of the replies are suggestions, the main post itself is a guide. Not really any reason to change the name of the post to remove the "guide" part of the name. It's also not like people are coming here to read the suggestions to the guide and the party quest itself, they're here to read the guide. The suggestions themselves are just what people want for the party quest, and there's nothing wrong with that being here. The actual guide itself is also pretty big itself, so I feel like 10% is a large understatement.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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    I haven't done MPQ after the revamp of the Pendant so things may have changed, but I distinctly recall the Angry Frankenroid giving a lot more experience than doing a regular Frankenroid run (meaning: the end PQ experience bonus is greater if your party completed the Angry run instead of the normal run). This should be the case if it is not.

    I've also recommended a change to stage 4 so that a mage isn't dependent, but it would require a LOT of coding to change the map. The change would be the pillars removed along the top and bottom and a ladder inserted at the very far right side, and the Jump-Down feature removed from this map. That way a Mage becomes a lot faster but unnecessary. This allows any 4 players to do the PQ. I've had it where 4 people wanted to go, one wasn't a mage, and one person had to be left out once a mage arrived. It's really crappy to be that one person left out. :(
     
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  18. thsscapi
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    This is an interesting suggestion. I agree it would be somewhat difficult to implement. Perhaps one of the recent newly-teased springboards could be placed in this room so that all classes can complete it :D

    If the pillars can be easily removed (if not, just add teleporters to bypass each individual pillar), but the Jump-Down feature cannot be, simply move the top platforms higher up instead (or just remove the middle platforms), keeping the ladder on the end as suggested. This way, all classes must walk in a huge circle both ways, but Mages do it much faster because Teleport outpaces everything, including other mobility skills (especially at these levels).
    Alternatively, place ladders for every section, then either set player movespeed to base 100%, or add high-avoid flying mobs (like in Kerning City's Jump Quest). This way, non-Mages must spend a rather long time here climbing ladders, while Mages zoom through.

    The boxes themselves can also be moved to other platforms. Together with any combination of the above map changes (ladders, moved platforms, Jump-Down removed or not), this makes is so that non-Mages must navigate the room like a maze or jump quest, while Mages simply do it as they always did.
    Jump-Down removed and teleporters (or a ladder, whichever is easier) added on the far right.
    Non-Mages can only use teleporters and must walk quite a bit, and could spend a long time in this room since they're looking for 2 items randomly hidden in 4 boxes spread out.
    Mages have their own Teleport and can access the 4 boxes much, much quicker.
    [​IMG]
    Exit door on bottom-left. Coloured circles and lines are teleporters. Brown boxes are crates to be hit.

    We could also make use of Key Cards in this room. A somewhat wild example is to add a box near the exit which requires a Key Card to open, but it has a guaranteed drop. This way, non-Mages must have an extra Key Card, while Mages don't require it but could do so if the party has extras.
    Hell, with a Mage in the party, they could skip the left room entirely and send a Mage with a Key Card into the right room to get the 2 Experiment Files required. This way would require a total of only 3 Key Cards, so a Mage would benefit any party but is not a requirement.

    Remember that these rooms deal damage to the player, so any change that makes non-Mages spend more time here will mean that Mages are still a bonus to have. There is so much potential in this suggestion (modifying the right room) in general.
     
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    Keeny's quest line is NOT and never WAS required to get the pendant, which I have mentioned before but apparently people still assume it is actually required.
    Keeny's final quest does require access to Yulete's lab in town, it does not require an Angry Frank kill (other than gaining access to the lab) but is NOT required in ANY way to get the pendant.
    As for proof, I have run this pq the last couple weeks with my archer, without a single Keeny quest completed, and still have managed to get my pendant.
    keeny quest and pendant.png

    I've also mentioned this before, but its 3 beakers, not 4.
     
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